Did not come to debate. Came for some support in finding out what I believe and what is going on with me. I am Christian right now yet so many things don't add up. I am told on one hand to be a Christian or burn in hell. I am seeing things in the bible that make no sense. For example we are suppose to have a loving God yet in the old testament there is talk of slavery. I am told God can and will heal everything. I know this is not true. He may be able to but he does not heal everything. When I go to Christian chat and talk about my illness I am told God will heal me though I have prayed about that a million times and am not healed. I am depressed most of the time as in my history but Christianity did not fix that and wonder at times if it has not made it even worse. It is implied that you do not have enough faith if you are not healed by God. Jesus is suppose to be perfect yet God has wrath. Wrath is seen as a sin I do believe so how does my God have wrath? We are commanded to worship God or go to hell. Yet I would not command my children to worship me or be killed. The bible says ask anything in his name and it shall be done. But it is not. God punished Job and gave the devil full permission to tear up Job's life completely so that it was a test for Job to pass to prove he loved God no matter what. Is that cruelty? We are told to pray about something and the prayer will be answered yet people pray about 100 times for the exact same thing over and over and it is not always done. Is one prayer sufficient? I guess not. I am told satan is working on me when I am sick or depressed. I am told he is out to get me daily. Yes if I am not sick I am told the bible says we must suffer on this earth. But when I do suffer God is suppose to fix it with a prayer. Are we suppose to suffer or are we to be healed of everything? I am told we always have joy with God in our lives. But I have little joy ever.
I am confused and sick and God does not seem to be doing anything about it. Though I have prayed and had other pray for me. and another question, why is my prayer alone not enough but I must have many pray about the same thing for me also. And why was Christ demanded to die a painful death for my sins? Why was forgiveness without anyone being killed sufficient? I forgive people and would not expect someone to suffer or die for me to forgive?
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Dear Confused - To find truth in the bible you need someone to teach you about the history of Judaism and Christianity. But don't worry! Bring your confusion to an hour's silent listening in a Quaker Meeting for Worship and be open to what happens. www.quaker.org to find your nearest Meeting.
I actually agree with this post, however I would look for way more sources. The more you know the better and learn on your own for a while Personally I am involved from time to time in working with various religious groups for what I believe are good causes though I have scaled back because I have seen how doing good work with religious groups can often led to future bad things. One should definitely keep an open-mind learn all you can experience as much as possible.
But always keep in mind there are thousands of religions what is the chance any particular one got it all right about any one thing. With the infinite possibilities out there I say any religion made by man has less of a chance of being right about everything or even just the one thing many religions call God than you winning the lottery if you don't play even that said there is still a chance someone else could buy you the ticket, it's really unlikely to happen though.
What you are going through is normal, and I like to call it the age of reason there is no particular age it happens to people of all ages. and I usually tell people hey some people need religion for various reasons but mainly to help them cope one way or another. Others need it to tell them what is right or wrong and you don't want these people having no moral compass artificial as it may be because without it they have serious potential to become psychopaths. Really we are better off with them thinking they will go to hell if they are given a reason to believe they have to act good because without it society would have to deal with them after they caused to much damage. My point here is religion has its uses, like for example helping to divide power between corporations politics and gangs ect. and giving a reason for communities to organize and get together, sadly without religion people are not as good at this as one would hope.
But now that you have begun down this path, it is likely you will end up where the rest of us have, at a point where you realize how ridiculous religion can be. It's really up to you how you handle it. But I would take your time and do things at your own pace. There are many consequences for how you act and where or if you decide to speak out depending on where you are, but always think about how others will feel or react to what you have to say before deciding to say it. Basically this is a know where you are warning. Me personally, I am very outspoken but as a result I have suffered much hardship. this Is my choice and to use a term I'm sure your familiar with the cross I bear..
In the meantime feel free to discuss anything with the board you wish. We can be good for talking about more than Just atheism. You will learn there are all kinds of atheist and not all are as reasonable as others some are very tolerant of the beliefs of others while others are less so. Me personally I could be much more reasonable but I feel just right being how I am, at least for now, I'm still working on it... I just keep trying to be a better man.
I just want to clarify you don't need religion to have a moral compass but some people don't have one and for those people we are better of with them having a touch of direction even if they find it from religion.
You are not alone many people suffer confusion from religion. Zaphod is right do the research and think with an open mind. Don't think about the fear factor religions press with. Think about beliving in what is worthy. If a god was worthy it would not need to threaten people into submission. I believe in what makes sence and has evidence.
Yes belief in dieties are not dealing with realities. However, I found it easier to let go of the beaten in beliefs by looking at all the other beliefs. Then I went through another stage of making my own beliefs. For one who is suffering it may be even harder. Mr confused as I said no worthy god would threaten you.
The god I created ( to evolve from religion) is life/nature. . All things die. All things are recycled. All things contribute to life. Life just wants to be experienced and evolve.
Do your research and believe in what make sence. Whatever does not require punishment for being you. When you realize that you do not need a god, then you can truely love the life you have lived and you will not fear what will happen when your life ends.
One thing if you can't forgive yourself or others then no gods forgiveness will matter. If you don't love, respect or care about yourself then no god can. Everything including belief or nonbelief is up to you.
Thanks for all the input. I am just what I said, "confused". I have more questions than answers since Christianity and am more and more confused and depressed and fearful now days. I also ask the question which has been coined "God fearing"? What does that mean. I am taught on one hand God is merciful and forgiving and loves me but then taught to fear him also. ??
Please continue the input. Much appreciated.
God fearing means just what it sounds like. When someone says they re God fearing this means they fear God and usually it means they think everyone else should too.
When somrone makes the distinction that someone else is God fearing they can likely mean that the person is led or persuaded by the fear of God and what may happen if they decide not to do follow the works scripture or other religious propaganda which influences them to believe that doing the wrong things can lead them to facing the wrath of God.
God-fearing can also simply and accurately mean someone who is religious and obeys the rules of their religion in a way which is considered morally correct by their religious view out of fear of the consequences they will receive for not doing so when they are judged by God. To them, this simply means devout.
By the way, keep up the more questions than answers mentality. For those who think they got it all figured out inevitably prove themselves to be ignorant.
Yes I am quite confused about fearing a God who is suppose to love us and have mercy. Should anyone fear their parents or fear anyone and have that fear entangled with love? How do fear and love operate together? Just a thought.
Listen, there is a lot of theory and thought on what "God" is, and how many religions have some form of god. I'm more on board with Sparnoza logic, that the worship of god is a learned behavior. As an example, from a young age we rely on our parents to have our needs met. We use language and gesture to communicate needs. However, there is a wierd superstitious cross over where our ancestors tried to personify and communicate our needs to nature as well, which is why we pray and sing to god, and do things to "please him". And most religions believe that prayers are answered, but there is no scientific evidence that prayer influences the universe. In fact, prayer was the science communities most tested experiment in the early days, and the evidence suggests prayer does nothing. Which is why you are confused right now!
Prayer doesn't work, so no... God isn't going to "Heal" you. Your not sick anyway. You're just realizing that... Christianity tells you alot of things that are... well... I wouldn't say "Lies", but they certainly are not supported by any evidence. You really ought to take a break from church though, because the biggest influencing factor of any religion is it's community. The church you go to, and people you surround your self with can either:
A.) Make you feel loved and Apreciated
B.) Degrade you and make you feel miserable, like your a bad person.
And in religion, how you are treated is determined almost solely on how well you follow what everyone else is doing. Sort of like... high school ;) Follow the rules and be energetic and evangelical about it your faith, and people will shower you with applause. Break a rule or decide that the fad is not worth following, and yes they will hate you. Call you sick, say you need help... like a counselor. Or they will say it's a "test of faith! god is testing you!". Before I ditched christianity, I was also called "Luke-warm Christian" or "Back-sliding". There was other things said, but I'm not not gunna make this about me... But yeah, take a break from it if you sense something is not right or true, and search for truth elsewhere. If you decide that after investigating, and Christianity still appears to be the best answer, I hear god forgives.
Thanks much for you input. I have not visited this site in a while. What you say does make sense to me to the point it could be the truth.
Confused, stripping religion from your mind is a process that is different for each. It depends on how you were trained to believe.
God fearing means you fear gods wrath. Gods wrath is delt to those who do not have god within. Christains may say they do not fear god but they fear being without god.
The belief in a god takes mental programing through years or through desperation. You have to decide on weather you want to be degraded by a belief or be honered to be a human.
What ever you decide, the truth is, there is no god.
Thanks so much for your input. I am taking in the words here somewhat.
Confused, I'm sorry your going through all this, Your not obligated to share this but, What exactly is it your going through, you reference being sick, what is your sickness?
I have severe fibromyalgia X10 years. I am in pain most of the time with chronic exhaustion no matter how much I sleep. I am stiff all the time. I just suffer a lot.
Well I have a true disease that is much disbelieve, real, belittled, labeled and stigmatized. Fibromyalgia diagnosed 10 years ago when I got sick and was never sick a day in my life hardly. It is likened to a curse that is unseen but I will not go there. And also diagnosed with clinical depression over 20 years ago. Right this minute I am depressed. I accepted Jesus a few months ago. I did it on my own and do not attend church neither was I really influenced by anyone I can put in particular. BUT point is depression is not better but worse. I log onto a Christian chat site now and I sit and watch the screen. I don't participate in the chat anymore I just sit an watch. I don't know what to say anymore. I have called out to Jesus many times in life even before "accepting Christ" recently. I SAY he answered my prayers but to that I am not completely sure anymore.
Oh and what is it with the gay bashing on the Christian site? Ok, I guess the book of Romans and other places but I would much rather let people be who they are and accept them.
Sorry your prayers couldn't be answered. Yeah I can't honestly say I know much about Fibromyalgia All I really know Is its believed (not proven) to come from prolonged periods of stress. and its also believed that medical marijuana can help but not cure it. I think if I were you I would look for a warm climate keep hydrated take lots of soaks and look into the herbal therapies. I can say first hand Reiki can be helpful with dealing with pain. I am not sure whether your depression came first or your Fibromyalgia, did are you? From what I understand both can "possibly" led to the other.
For you is it muscular, joint related just all over? are you tired? I actually worry form time to time I may be developing it but I hear your far more likely to develop the disorder if your a female. I hear Canada has some good information sites for researching into treatment options perhaps some of the other people on these boards can help, no promises though.
In regards to the gay bashing on Christian sites: one of the big problems with people who like to call themselves Christian is that they often don't have the first clue what it means to be Christian and therefore act hypocritically. Christians are not supposed to cast judgment and what so ever they do to the least of Gods people so they are supposedly doing on to God.
By the way I always loved rock and roll music and came to a point with Christianity that I thought it was a horrid sin. As today I sit, I am hearing AC/DC and Rolling Stones etc.. Guess many think I am wrong.
Were you a Mormon? There nothing wrong with music, it's fun, you should enjoy it all you can. go out and dance to it. AC/DC is great.
No traditional generic Christian non denominational. Not into Mormon and know it is a crock. I have not decided about Christianity in general but Mormons are really out way out there. LOL. But let them be who they want to be. It is ok with me. Thanks for the suggestions on fibromyalgia. And also I agree about the gay bashing being hypocritical.
No not Mormon. Thanks though. No denomination at all.
So what brought you to the conclusion that rock and roll was evil?
I meant to say, what brought you to the conclusion that rock and roll was horrid sin?
Christianity did. Because I like bands like AC/DC and they sing about the devil sometimes. So I am told hard rock is not good and it is of satan.
Oh the Christians I talked to on line. And I also heard that from other Christians in my life in the past.
I'm not trying to belittle situation, but if you're afraid that you must be Christian or burn in hell... you'll probably be relieved to know that once you're not christian, hell doesn't exist for you either so you don't have to worry about burning there :)
If you want to be healed, go to the doctor and discuss your situation.
Believe in hell and your life will be in hell. You suffered so much of your belief in god. Do not be depressed in Christianity, that religion was born for a good purpose but sometimes it drives us crazy, and teach us to think illogically.
You only live once, why make it beautiful. Do not give in to the horror of the concept of hell.
Well put. Believe in hell and your life will be hell.
That's the power of positive thinking, and the danger of thought suppression and autosuggestion.
Rock is fine. There are plenty of Christian rock bands like Skillet and Disciple. As far as being confused, I noticed the contradictions and that's why I became an atheist. Like everyone else has said, research other religions and if one appeals to you, convert to that religion. If none appeal to you, then become an atheist or agnostic
Thanks for you input. I have nothing against bisexuals and or gay people. I think you are born that way. You are born to be who you are. But the book of Romans and several other bible references tell me it is an abomination. I am not so sure what I believe about all that stuff in the bible right now all the time.
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