I'm not generalizing here but it seems to me that a lot of atheists are adamant that God doesn't exist.
I've looked at things such as the 7-point scale and it seems to me that a lot of the more scientific atheists are around about a 6.5.
Why is it then that atheists shun any religion that they come upon and appear to be absolutely certain that there is no God?
Thanks
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Re: OP
You will have to ask each and every individual atheist for his her reason(s). There is no single "blanket reason" why we do not believe in any god(s).
I'm not generalising here, but am awful lot of theists come here, to post this lie.
What objective evidence can you demonstrate for any deity?
Why is it that theists keep lying, and misrepresenting atheists as having absolute certainty, I have yet to encounter or even read about an atheist who claims this.
Thanks
I'm not trying to lie, I'm simply making an assumption, that's why I said I'm making an assumption.
It just appears that way based on behavior.
@electroncapture
I never said you were not making an assumption, and nothing negates an assumption being dishonest, which of course yours was. Simply repeating the lie doesn't answer my objection at all. Here is your original claim:
Two lies in there, firstly you quite clearly are generalising, and secondly hardly any atheists I have encountered are adamant of any such thing. As I said, I have only ever heard this claim from dishonest theists, with an axe to grind.
You also ignored my question so I will repeat it.
What objective evidence can you demonstrate for any deity?
You also failed to address my response to that second lie from you. So here it is again.
Why is it that theists keep lying, and misrepresenting atheists as having absolute certainty, since I have yet to encounter or even read about an atheist who claims this?
Please don't bother to respond if you are not going to do so honestly, as it's a waste of everyone's time.
To assume.
To make an “ass” out of “u” and “me”
Uhhhh well when I said "I'm not generalizing here but it seems to me that a lot of atheists are adamant that God doesn't exist." Me saying I'm not generalizing it was just me being polite. Either you don't understand the definition of the word 'lie' or either you have a severe lack of comprehension of reading between the lines. Now please don't be a bitch about this point......
I will get to your second question but read this first.......
From what I've experienced amongst atheists I've met, yes it seems like they can't handle someone debating with them without being aggressive if I disagree with them and their behaviour does seem like they have a personal issue.
Now to address your first question ( Don't make the postulate that I'm purposefully ignoring your questions, I have other things to do such as get with solving 2nd order differential equations, so I sometimes do just skim through the text WHEN I HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO otherwise just read the text fully which I now have the time to do)
Let's start:
Firstly I don't have some sort of detector which can detect God. Let's just forget about what religion is too, don't think of any religion here. I've heard atheists such as Lawrence Krauss go on tangents about how the universe is made from nothing when he himself admitted that this 'nothing isn't really nothing. Take it or leave it but this is what I honestly believe. So the Big Bang occurred when matter and antimatter collided with each other which gave rise to the big bang. When I was in high school, we went to a particle physics day at a university (in the UK) I spoke to one of the academics there and asked what came before that and they said: "We don't know it becomes philosophical at this point". I think it's fair to say there must have been a cause for this to happen and I call that cause God and that I am absolutely certain of, it would be stupid to say that the KE and rest energies of these particles came from nowhere.
To address my second "lie" as you call it. I think I've touched a bit about this on my first point but anyway, I can't speak on behalf of all theists but I think they have the same problem as what I'm having in that certain atheists come across a certain way. And when atheists speak about religion they seem absolutely certain that it is wrong even though they can't be 100% sure, which is why we assume things just like you do about us..
YOU SEE ALL of us make assumptions as you and I just did
Sheldon:" Why is it that theists keep lying, and misrepresenting atheists as having absolute certainty since I have yet to encounter or even read about an atheist who claims this?"
Maybe we should all stop making assumptions you and I included and speak to individuals on a case by case basis..
Please don't be nasty in your reply Be nice.... it might actually make me listen
@electroncapture
RE: "Me saying I'm not generalizing it was just me being polite." No, it was a fucking stupid comment that demonstrated absolute and utter dishonesty. I don't personally think you are a dishonest piece of shit but it's hard to disagree with public opinion.
RE: "From what I've experienced among atheists I've met..." When the FUCK are you going to start debating. All you have done is make inane and very repetitive assertions that have been debunked multiple times. You don't read the comments of others. You have offered no evidence for your claims. Repetitious bullshit IS NOT DEBATE.
RE: "Let's just forget about what religion is too, don't think of any religion here."
So we are moving from God to religion. Okay, there is no religion. What do you imagine that does to God? But, let's do as you say. We will think of NO RELIGION.
RE: "Lawrence Krauss go on tangents about how the universe is made from nothing when he himself admitted that this 'nothing isn't really nothing."
You are confusing mathematical nothing or philosophical nothing with actual nothing. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE AT ALL FOR AN ACTUAL NOTHING. Everywhere we look in the universe THERE IS SOMETHING. That is all Lawrence has said. We know something exists. We have absolutely no evidence at all for NOTHING. Nothing is loaded with energy. THIS WAS PREVIOUSLY EXPLAINED TO YOU AND YOU HAVE OPTED NOT TO LISTEN.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo
RE: "So the Big Bang occurred when matter and antimatter collided with each other which gave rise to the big bang."
WTF? No one knows why the universe began to expand. You should write a book and claim your Nobel Prize. Are you really this dense. If matter and antimatter could collide, they would cancel each other out and ZERO would be the result.
RE: "We don't know it becomes philosophical at this point". I think it's fair to say there must have been a cause for this to happen and I call that cause God"
WHY IN THE FUCK DON'T YOU LISTEN. IT'S RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE. "WE DON'T KNOW." You do not get to insert your god into the gap of knowledge. YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD THIS BY US. YOU WERE TOLD IT IN THE PAST. IT HAS BEEN REPEATED TO YOU YOUR ENTIRE LIFE APPARENTLY AND STILL YOU CHOOSE TO BE AN IDIOT! WAKE UP!!
Nothing else needs to be discussed beyond this point. You have just debunked your own assertion with a qualified reference. LISTEN TO WHAT PEOPLE ARE TELLING YOU!!!
You're comment: WTF? No one knows why the universe began to expand. You should write a book and claim your Nobel Prize. Are you really this dense. If matter and antimatter could collide, they would cancel each other out and ZERO would be the result.
My response: I study physics pal, the charge would result in being zero yes, but the energy of the resultant photon would be equal to the KE and rest energies of the matter and antimatter.
Based off your comment it's clear that you haven't read physics beyond highschool level
Are you claiming this evidences a deity, and if so please explain, and could you also explain why the entire scientific world seems to have missed this conclusion? I have checked every major global news network and none of them are running the banner headline that physics has proved the existence of a deity? You have to admit that seems oddly incongruous alongside what you are inferring here.
That is a generalisation, look the word up is all I can suggest.
That's called irony, perhaps you ought to look that up as well.
I ask you what objective evidence you can demonstrate for the claim, all you have done is repeat the claim? Your certainty of your belief is irrelevant, though ironic given your lie about atheists being certain, and that's why I asked you to demonstrate objective evidence. Perhaps these are two more words you ought to look up?
Liar, all you have done is repeat your lie, and I am an atheist and have never claimed absolute certainty about anything, I don't believe absolute certainty is epistemologically possible. Feel free to look through the threads as the evidence for this is manifest in those threads, and I am prepared to bet a months wages that you won't find "a lot of atheists" making the claims you have dishonestly assigned to them.
I made no assumptions, I cited theists like you who came here and posted the same dishonest generalisations about atheists, nothing you have posted suggests to me you have come here to listen either, and opening with a sweeping generalisation to misrepresent atheists hardly suggests I am wrong. If you stop lying and generalising, and treat the atheists here with some respect, and and show some integrity you might find the tone of the responses alters accordingly. Whether you listen or not is of no consequence to me, since it is you who has sought atheists out, not the other way around, so you can't come here to lie about atheists generally, then insist they be "nice" to you, or you won't listen, that's just absurdly puerile.
So, here is your OP:
Now I say again, I have not encountered an atheist who is adamant of any such thing, though I often encounter theists who post this lie. The 7 point scale is from professor Richard Dawkins, and the very fact he uses the scale disproves your dishonest rhetoric about atheists being absolutely certain, that's why he suggested that scale. The last sentence simply shows that you did in fact generalise, and did in fact lie.
However I'm a fair man, so search the thousands of posts in this atheist forum, and show, lets say half a dozen atheists, who make this claim you have dishonestly assigned to them.
I am still waiting for you to demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity?
I just mentioned the matter and antimatter thing you seemed to have cut that out my quote when you replied.
as far as physical evidence I have none in the manner you are asking for
I ignored the claim about antimatter as I see no relevance? I note you are also misrepresenting the wording of my question, as I very specifically said objective evidence, and the wording is important. If you have none, then perhaps you can list any other beliefs you hold without any objective evidence to support them, but that form no part of your religious beliefs?
As it always seems odd to me that theists don't see the inherent bias in that position. The arguments theists present as well as being irrational and therefore flawed, don't argue for a particular deity, so even were they not flawed irrational arguments, they get one no closer to your deity than they do to Thor or Vishnu.
I didn't say you claimed absolute uncertainty. I said whom I've come across personally have. Just please stop being a whiny bitch
Leaving aside the straw man argument, and the typo, you made a general remark quoted verbatim above. So as we can see another lie from you, and the only poster I see whining is you, if you don't like your vapid superstitious claims, and lies about atheists being subjected to rigorous scrutiny, then feel free to leave, otherwise suck it up, as no one likes a crybaby, and do stop trolling, you will not provoke me champ. You're also being disingenuous again, so here is another of your claims verbatim.
So that is not what you are now claiming to have said is it, and as we can see, it absolute is a generalisation. Something you seem keen to now weasel your way past without acknowledging the fact, hardly a promising start. Then there was this claim, and again I have quoted you verbatim.
I have never seen an atheist make any such claim, and I have never made any such claim, and I challenged you to search this site's thousands of posts by the many atheists on here to support your lie, again you ignored this, instead resorting to ad hominem attacks. Again this behaviour is hardly representative of someone looking for honest debate.
You also made this claim, which is pretty ironic given the sweeping generalisations you made prior to it, some of which I have quoted again in this response.
If you can demonstrate no objective evidence for any deity, and only seem to want to lie, and misrepresent atheists with sweeping and dishonest generalisations you cannot support with any evidence from the thousands of posts by atheists on here, then why should anyone care what you think, as it seems to me you are either trolling or have something of a chip on your shoulder where atheists are concerned.
Why have you come to an atheist forum? Is it just to misrepresent us with dishonest generalisations? As that is all I have seen so far, apart from you whining when you're called on it.
not a lie just an ASSUMPTION HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO REPEAT THAT! TRY BEING NICE MAYBE I'LL LISTEN
THE REASON WHY YOUR SUCH AN ASSHOLE IS BECAUSE YOUR MUM PROBABLY DUMPED YOU AS A KID OR SOME SHIT AND you're JUST HERE FOR VALIDATION AND YOU KNOW IT
Repetition won't change the fact you lied, and you can shout and hurl ad hominem attacks all you want, they are simply an own goal, even if you can't see it. You also need to grasp, I don't care whether you listen, as this is a public forum, and you don't get to tell people what they can post on here.
As I said, if you don't want your vapid superstitious claims, or your dishonest misrepresentations of atheists to be held up to proper scrutiny, then don't share them in a public forum.
@electroncapture: Oh! We've had a heckle. Oh damn... not it's time for a heckle comeback. If you want your father's cum back you can scrape it off your chin!
No. It was an assumption the first time you used it. Now we are 25 times in and you are just lying to us and more importantly LYING TO YOURSELF. GO BACK AND ACTUALLY READ THE FACTS PEOPLE HAVE SHARED WITH YOU.
@Electronboy Re: To Sheldon - "THE REASON WHY YOUR SUCH AN ASSHOLE IS BECAUSE YOUR MUM PROBABLY DUMPED YOU AS A KID OR SOME SHIT AND you're JUST HERE FOR VALIDATION AND YOU KNOW IT"
....ROFLMAO.... Oh-your-fucking-god!!!... *wiping tears of laughter from eyes*... I haven't heard flaming like that since third grade recess period! You be going all retro-old-school! Priceless! Oh WOW!... *trying to catch breath*... How on Earth is poor Shelly EVER going to recover from THAT?... Bwaaaa-haaaaa-haaaa!
@Sheldon
re electroncapture
As my darling little sis used to say '"hit him again daddy"
@delusioncapture
The kalam cosmological argument again...ROTFLMAO...Really? LOL, that's too funny, two theists at once trying it out at the same time...coinkydink? LOLOLOL. How many gods of the gap does it take to change a light bulb? As many as you can blindly assert. ROTFLMAO.
Objective evidence of your god please...you have any?
Thank you, come again.
@electroncapture Which god?
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@ electroncapture
"It just appears that way based on behavior."
Then you do not understand behavior. If a person does not accept a proposition, that may not be because they are opposed to the proposition.
It just may be that the proposition is not convincing and/or does not carry enough evidence.
@electroncapture Why is it then that atheists shun any religion that they come upon and appear to be absolutely certain that there is no God?
Thanks
Which god?
@ Chuck
"Why is it then that atheists shun any religion that they come upon and appear to be absolutely certain that there is no God?"
Many atheists do not shun religion. I know of many who diligently read holy books and study many different belief systems. What many atheists do is not accept those religions.
Do you accept catholicism? Do you accept Islam? Do you accept the Japanese Shinto? Do you accept Buddhism? Do you accept Zoroastrianism?
I, among many other atheists are NOT certain there is no god. For most, they have not been convinced, and are waiting for proof or evidence on that assertion.
There is a distinct difference between rejecting and not accepting.
https://youtu.be/LUUGnVtvXzc
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@Joseph Re: vid link
And your point would beeeeeee...?
I'm gonna like this - Dr. Turd: Scientific Evidence for God. (HINT: THERE IS NOT SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE FOR GOD.)
1. Chapel Hill is where Bart Eherman teaches. She probably read one of his books and was CURED!!! There are not atheistic teachers on campus. There are legitimate HISTORIANS.
HERE WE GO WITH APOLOGETICS TRAINING AND HOW HE SAVED HIS LITTLE GIRL FROM HELL. I CAN'T FUCKING WAIT!
1. The question to ask all unbelievers. (SO EXCITING) "If Christianity were true would you become a Christian." I gotta say .... "NO" Sorry your god is a fucking asshole. However, I would agree that Christianity is true if you can demonstrate it to be true.
2. When you go to college, you don't want the moral constraints of God on you! (Horse shit assertion.) Does nothing to further the discussion.
3. A lot of times people are not on a truth quest, they are on a happiness quest. More filler. (I think we are avoiding getting down to the EVIDENCE part of the discussion. Hopefully it will get here soon.)
4. The only way to get ultimate happiness is to go straight through truth. He actually said that after accusing university students of being on a quest for happiness? HA HA HA HA HA .... Yep, Truth = Happiness. So if Dr. Turd realized he was an idiot, he would be happy? (Wait a minute! That works! After all, Ignorance is bliss!)
5. 75% of young people walk away from the church once they go to college. YEP! Education is the bane of religion. Stay stupid, stay in church. 100% Agreement. Smartest thing he has said so far.
6. Weinberg Quote - Science points to Atheism. (Um, He just debunked Mr Turds entire lecture and he is demonstrably more qualified.)
7. Christopher Hitchens, Dawkins, David Silverman, - All of these guys disagree with Mr Turds conclusion as well. Basically he has completely demolished the the primary assertion of his own lecture. No one of import even agrees with him.
8. The Ruins of Corinth in Greece: I guess the excitement is beginning.....
In Corinth you are standing right where the apostle Paul stood. Well, close enough anyway.... SO WHAT'S NEXT???
9. Paul wrote letters to the Corinthians: "We destroy people's arguments and every proud thing that raises itself against God!." (Cor. 10:5) WELL FOR FUCK SAKE. I'M SIX MINUTES INTO THE VIDEO AND STILL WAITING FOR HIM TO DO THAT. SO FAR, ALL HE HAS DONE IS DEBUNK HIS OWN POSITION "SCIENCE PROVES GOD." EVERYONE HE HAS MENTIONED SO FAR, DISAGREES.
10. AHHHH.... WE NEED TO DESTROY ARGUMENTS AGAINST CHRISTIANITY. (I guess a shitload of straw-man bullshit comes next. Wouldn't you think that if you were going to prove Christianity to be true you would begin by proving Christianity to be true?)
11. Arguments for Atheism??? Interesting? I have never heard an argument for atheism? I have no idea what he is about to talk about. I'm expecting a strawman of some sort.
12. HA HA HA HA !!! The arguments for atheism, which I have never heard of before, are from God Himself. (THE TENSION IS MOUNTING!! WE MUST BE GETTING CLOSE! THE TRUTH IS ABOUT TO BE REVEALED! WHAT IN THE FUCK ARE THOSE SLIMY ATHEIST'S ARGUMENTS FOR ATHEISM!!)
13. OH MY GOD! THE ATHEISTS ARE STEALING FROM GOD TO ARGUE AGAINST HIM. I'VE BEEN COMMITTING INTELLECTUAL CRIMES!!! FUCK ME. I'M A BAD BOY.
14. C R I M E S is an acronym and it's why Atheists need God to make their case. HA HA HA HA HA HA ..... HERE COME SOME PRESUPPOSITIONAL APOLOGETICS... (I was waiting for a straw-man.)
15. Causality, Reason, Information, Morality, Evil, Science (AND HERE IS THE STRA-MAN! YEAAAAA! ) When have you heard an atheist argue that causality proves Atheism, Reason proves Atheism, Information proves Atheism, Morality proves Atheism, Evil proves Atheism, or Science proves atheism? Atheism is the rejection of God claims. NO ONE HAS EVER PROVED ATHEISM.
16. HA HA HA HA HA HA .... He mentions that the information chapter is about evolution. Like atheism is contingent on evolution! HA HA HA HA HA HA ..... If evolution were 100% wrong, it does not take us one step closer to Creationism. If evolution did not exist at all, you would still have to PROVE a god exists. Atheism has nothing what so ever to do with Evolution. NOTHING!
17. Lucky for me, he is only going to talk about S, science today..... great!
18. We will answer 3 questions.
1. What does science say about God. (EASY - NOTHING)
2. Can science disprove god. (No. It's a non-falsifiable claim. But it can
come close. Lack of evidence is in fact evidence of absence.)
3. Does science need God (EASY - NO.)
19 #1 Simpson Trial - False Analogy --- All Data needs to be interpreted. Does the data point towards guilt or innocence. (OOPS! MAJOR PROBLEM HERE. OUR COURTS DO NOT RULE ON INNOCENCE. THEY ONLY RULE ON GUILTY OR NOT GUILTY. THE FACT THAT YOU ARE NOT GUILTY DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE INNOCENT.) Let's see where this goes.....so far, looks like a false dichotomy.
20. Yep, false analogy. Because people believe OJ was both guilty and innocent, information can be interpreted different ways. (OJ WAS NEVER PROVED INNOCENT.) The entire "innocent" bullshit is a red herring. Innocent was NEVER a conclusion. The conclusion was "Not Guilty." The prosecutor did not prove her case.
21. If you are open to god you will say, "Yes this evidence points to god." If you are against god.... you believe in material cause (as if there is another kind- please demonstrate) you will not see the evidence pointing to god. WHAT EVIDENCE. WE ARE STILL WAITING FOR THE EVIDENCE!!!! HALF WAY THROUGH THE VIDEO AND NOTHING HAS BEEN PRESENTED.
21, Moving the goal posts and setting up another straw-man. "We are not arguing over the actual evidence. We are arguing over world views." (ATHEISM IS NOT A BELIEF SYSTEM AND IT HAS NO WORLD VIEW.)
22. It can't be god because those EVIL SCIENTISTS and their EVIL WORLD VIEW have ruled GOD out in advance. (NOTHING WAS EVER FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. PLEASE OFFER EVIDENCE FOR YOUR GOD. WE ARE HAPPY TO BELIEVE IF YOU CAN PROVIDE BACKING FOR YOUR CLAIM.)
23. Scientists are being unfair with the evidence. Science says nothing about God. It's scientists that say there is no god. (WHAT??? WHEN??? ALL SCIENTISTS WANT YOU TO DO IS SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM.
Okay.... this is getting fucking boring. I have had enough. There is nothing at all in any of this shit that is worth watching. Even sitting here, alone, distancing myself from the infected, counting the number of letters used to write this post is more interesting than watching another minute of the video.
THE IDIOT SAYS HE WILL GIVE EVIDENCE FOR GOD AND DOES NO SUCH THING.. NOT ONE SCRAP OF EVIDENCE FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. NOTHING!!!
No point has been made. Joseph is only displaying his 'unique' talent for finding you tube videos that he thinks adds irrefutable weight to the apologetic argument.
Mr. "How many of you here tonight have heard of me?" Turek is a narcissistic Christian spruiker who fails to offer any objective proof, much less evidence, of his god, despite the title of this little rant. He instead proudly asserts that he can debate dead men, such as he boasts at 4.50 about Christopher Hitchens "I've had the opportunity to bait (debate? I am using the transcript) him several times since he passed away."
I've read enough. I know better than to wait until my eyes bleed.
As far as I know Professor Stephen Weinberg is a respected Nobel Prize recipient in Physics who steadfastly only debates the living. I know who I would rather follow on the topic of reality.
Care to add a comment, Joseph? Or is your religious commitment to your Lord God Almighty and to Mr Turek limited to safe ineffectual anonymous click and paste efforts?
No matter.
@ Cog. You are one tough chimp to endure all of that vid. Have a human bred Cavendish banana that you'll note fits perfectly in my hand, isnt that weird? And have an agree as well,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIKqgE4BwAY
@Unconnected Bullshit that will make you smile!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BrpZe8PUBI
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