Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Log in or create an account to join the discussions on the Atheist Republic forums.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
FREE E-BOOKS
Get the book "Why There Is No God" and one more book for FREE!
Sign up below for the Atheist Republic Newsletter to get the books.
Record Your Message!
Record your voice here for it to be aired on the Atheist Republic Voicemails Podcast.
Send us your views and opinions, your personal stories, messages of support, comments on recent news, or any comments you would like to share about your part of the world.
Note : By clicking record you are allowing us to broadcast your message on any of our platforms.
Affiliate Disclaimer
Links to atheist related books, shirts and movies and other atheism related products are affiliate links.
All proceeds will go to keeping the Atheist Republic website up and running; providing resources, advocacy, community tools and encouragement to atheists all over the world.
Can you think of a preditor even as small as half the size of a human that could not eat us if we had no weapons.
We cant run faster than most preditors we have no natural weapons no camoflage. Hell we cant even smell them.
A falcon, a spider, tse tse fly, scorpion, brown bat, there are thousands of them.
Wow i didnt know there were falcons spiders brown bats and tse tse flies that big!!!!
I said as small as half the size of humans lol
Ok, it is relatively easy for an adult human to not get eaten by a cougar, a lone wolf, some humans can also keep from being eaten by other humans. There are also folks who have kept themselves from being eaten by leopards, sharks, boars, and crocs with no weapons. Want more examples?
Im pretty sure they used their intelligence. I did say without intelligence we have nothing.
No intelligence over and above what those other species of animals have.
Say a wolfs after me my brain lets me know to try to cover my scent an animal doesn't know that. My brain would tell me to get a weapon any weapon a stick would do. An animal doesn't do that. My brain would tell me wolves cant climb trees. Its unlikely an animal would know that.
Without our intelligence wed run or fight and lose either way because we cant outrun a wolf and dont have sharp claws and teeth designed to kill. What could we do punch it or kick it, it only needs one bite and we would be losing blood. I actually know a technique to fight a wolf unarmed but its risky and i only know it because of intelligence.
Oh, fer crying out loud, Lmale. Let me respond to a few things you've said...
All sorts of creatures climb trees to escape predators and they use their brains to do so.
All sorts of animals other than humans use 'weapons'.
Many animals cover their scents.
Studies of crows indicate that they manage to teach their offspring about threatening creatures without the offspring ever seeing the creature.
Running or fighting are not the only options used by humans and many other species. Posturing is an example.
Losing blood does not always equal death.
Many, many animals are quite intelligent. And some animals I've known are smarter that some humans I know.
CyberN maybe Lmale does not know how to portray the most obvious examples.
I give you one:
Sun radiation protection, all animals have some form of protection(hair, protecting habitat), we simply don't belong to any of those habitats and have no hair like the other animals.
Cold protection, all animals have some form of protection(hair, protecting habitat), we simply don't belong to any of those habitats and have no hair like the other animals.
"All sorts of animals other than humans use 'weapons'."
Yea some animals use things/weapons but there is a clear distinction.
They have natural weapons to survive in their particular habitat. We don't have those. We don't even have a natural habitat that is fit for us. With all my imagination(and believe me, I have a lot) I just cannot imagine a natural habitat that our natural body fits well in it.
"All sorts of creatures climb trees to escape predators and they use their brains to do so."
We don't have natural claws or strong fingernails to climb trees with.
You are assuming we have rope, shoes , hard skin when we don't posses such things naturally. Which monkeys do.(except ropes/shoes since they don't need them)
The argument in question is, that we lack natural abilities that other animals do have. it is as if we don't belong.
"And some animals I've known are smarter that some humans I know."
Agree, especially in their environment. This is no joke.
If you want to really understand how much we really don't belong in any habitat, you should watch a very interesting and realistic series:
Naked and Afraid
which pick Americans that have survival skills to take part in a 21 day survival challenge naked in a natural environment.
however they are given just 2 tools/weapons so they would stand a chance.
Sun problem:
http://vimeo.com/76066398
Too soft Skin and Cold problem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwskl257OPg
They are lucky and have every resource but again without half their knowledge they wouldn't have made it:
http://vimeo.com/83909101
It proves that without the knowledge(fire, tools, etc..) humans clearly do not belong in those environments even worse evolved from them unless you want to claim that we discovered fire before we became humans.
This a debatable argument that is still debated today.
"Sun radiation protection, all animals have some form of protection(hair, protecting habitat), we simply don't belong to any of those habitats and have no hair like the other animals."
Wales, hippos, elephants, pigs, to name a few. Elephants actually teach their young to use sand to protect their skin.
I suppose elephants, for example, would have an equally difficult time in the cold.
Weapons: rocks are pretty much everywhere and a number of animals use them as weapons.
"We don't have natural claws or strong fingernails to climb trees with."
How the heck was I able to climb that cherry tree in the back yard when I was a kid then?
I've never asserted that a human's brain isn't critical in survival. It is indeed. My entire point is that humans do not rely solely on intellect and other animal species do not rely solely on instinct.
"Wales, hippos, elephants, pigs, to name a few. Elephants actually teach their young to use sand to protect their skin.
I suppose elephants, for example, would have an equally difficult time in the cold."
The answer is in the quote:
"Sun radiation protection, all animals have some form of protection(hair, PROTECTING HABITAT), we simply don't belong to any of those habitats and have no hair like the other animals."
Wales do get burned if they stay in the sun but they have a habitat that fits for them and protects them, we don't, we use weapons/clothes, etc...
"Hippos also have an interesting adaptation. They excrete a pinkish liquid that wells up in droplets on their faces or behind their ears or necks. “Back in the old days, circuses would have signs saying, ‘Come see the hippos sweat blood,’” says Barthel. But when researchers from Japan analyzed the secretion on two hippos living at the Ueno Zoological Garden in Tokyo, they discovered that it is made up of red and orange pigments that absorb light in the UV range. The red pigment also prevents bacterial growth. In a May 2004 issue of Nature, the scientists concluded that the “blood” or “sweat” is actually a natural, antibiotic sunscreen."
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/ask-an-expert-do-animals-ge...
elephants have their own habitat and athough they use sand to protect themselves from UV rays they would die in the cold.
The point being is that their habitat is fit for them since it provides what they need. I am not saying that they are invulnerable and need no tools, I am saying that mother nature has provided them with natural protection on most of their needs in their own habitat.
We on the other hand, not only we don't have the natural abilities like the rest of the animals, we don't even have a habitat that is acceptable for our naked bodies.
Weapons: rocks are pretty much everywhere and a number of animals use them as weapons.
I already replied to this, it is not a matter of tools but a matter of not having basic adaptability to any habitat that we know of.
Take the elephant in his habitat, he only requires same sand, water, and enough shade and trees to survive.
We on the other hand, lack strength, fragile feet, weak hand grip, slow moving, fragile skin, thin skin, no hair/fur, no real natural defensive system(eg claws), etc...
We lack the most basic needs a creature that ever came out of a natural environment always has. It seems that were just don't belong in a natural environment.
"We don't have natural claws or strong fingernails to climb trees with."
How the heck was I able to climb that cherry tree in the back yard when I was a kid then?
I take a bet here, did you have shoes?
+ it is one thing, climbing 1 tree at your leisure and it is an other thing to climb trees as your means of survival when naked.
My entire point is that humans do not rely solely on intellect and other animal species do not rely solely on instinct.
I agree there but the comparison cannot be matched.
It is clear that animals rely more on instinct since they been at it more, and we humans rely more on experience and knowledge since we are not used to a survival situation everyday.
sry forgot the pigs:
Yea the pings are an ad-domesticated species, so they are not really valid for your claim.
also you cannot compare the thick skin of the elephants that can withstand a day in the sun covered with sand and survive with out fragile skin covered with sand.
There is just no comparison.
nature has provided for the elephant enough to survive in the sun, at east for a while. It is with evolution that the elephant learned that if he wants to stay longer in the sun he best get some sand from the local store :P
Thanks jeff
Cyber i did not claim animals couldnt climb trees i said my brain tells me wolves cant climb trees and its unlikely animals would know that wolves cant climb trees.
Youve been so quick to comment that 3 times in a row youve misread my posts please take your time to read.
" i did not claim animals couldnt climb trees i said my brain tells me wolves cant climb trees and its unlikely animals would know that wolves cant climb trees"
That this is simply incorrect has been my point all along.
"All sorts of creatures climb trees to escape predators and they use their brains to do so."
This only counts if the prey knew the predator could not climb dont tell me you think that would not require knowledge of the predator.
My point all along was without any knowledge or weapons the wolf would win because we have no natural defence ive been quite clear on that.
You're incorrect.
But, stick a fork in me, I'm done. This conversation is going nowhere and has no point.
There is a point i made clear from the start i want to understand how we evolved to have no natural defences so i can counter arguments from theists
Cyber, just want to say I've agreed with everything you've said.
Lmale human evolution from a common ancestor(ape) is one of the weakest arguments an atheist can make since there is really no evidence to make such a claim.
The fossil record clearly shows a huge difference between humans and apes(they are still waiting to find the missing link).
Also DNA evidence is inconclusive.
All animals have less then 40 major genetic deformities in their DNA that are passed over though generations. We humans for some unknown reason have over 4 000(and counting) major deformities and around 24 of them do not even allow a human to get to puberty before they die.
One has to wonder how such a deformity got into the gene pool in the first place? If you die before transmitting the deformity to your children?
Bet a theist would claim the 4000 deformities are the result of in breeding caused by populating the earth from just noahs family.
Id love it if they did because recent evidence proves noahs arc is plagiarised as ive said in my other post.
Think I'll leave that one alone for now Lmale ;)
It's an interesting discussion. I remember reading a book by Edwin Friedman where he was describing the different ways we have for portraying how the brain works. The most common one is the left brain-right brain picture, but more and more we're seeing the limitations in that model. Then he also talked about a model of upper-brain lower-brain, where the lower brain is the instinctive part that we've inherited through evolution. And the upper brain is the learned, thought-through, more mature, wise (etc) part that we've developed. In animals the lower brain part is massive and the upper is tiny. I think from memory in reptiles it's pretty much all lower brain. But in humans the instinctive bit is small and the upper brain has developed massively.
I haven't seen this research anywhere else. Interesting stuff though.
Pages