Theists.. Since our incredible growing knowledge of the universe so far isn't enough to make you question your religion, I now wonder; How would you feel if life was discovered on other planets?
.. Logic will tell you that to assume we are alone in the universe isn't far short of insane! Would you class such a discovery as an evil test of faith sent by the devil? Or maybe that your God was also responsible for the creation of that life, but forgot to mention it in his book? Or maybe.. just maybe, would it make you more skeptical about, well, everything?!
I personally see it as a matter of time before we make the discovery. How would that make you feel?
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Hey Danny Craft, Welcome to the boards!
Surprisingly on these boards nonetheless we have explained things to theist beyond reason but only to be up against a wall of paradigm and closed-mindedness that is beyond reason many times... I am pretty sure some theist as you say would if anally probed themselves by E.T. personally, still not questions their faith and as you say still think it was some sort of test sent by the devil and yet still go on feeling like they always have before about their faith. And furthermore think we wera all going to hell for thinking otherwise.
Ello :)
.. yea I definitely see that as an extremely likely possibility.. Difficult to say for sure though aay. I did start this thread on the Atheist Republic forum on facebook, annoyingly it no longer works on my account, all I can see is that I've had over 100 replies, and I can't view any of them, frustrating isn't the word!
I want to see some answers to this one. I wouldn't be amazed that we found life, it would be more interesting but not a surprise to me at all.
I wouldn't be surprised either. Why wouldn't there be life on other planets and, if found, would religions "find" new books to their scriptures?
Not new books, the garden of eden would just be called a 'metaphor'. It's their way of dealing with the science they just can't deny.
You are right about that Cyber! They will explain away the inaccuracies of their teachings just as they always have. I believe they are still trying to figure out a way to cover up the dinosaurs.
They did find a way to cover up dinosaurs remember they never actually existed the bones were placed there as a test.
Yep theres actually a good chance life of a sort exists in our solar system. The moons of Jupiter are a good bet.
They have discovered amino acids deep within meteorites that predate the whole solar system and didnt they find bacteria on mars?
What teaching that shit in the 21st century? Thought the church had conceded that the sun dosent orbit the earth.
As to just cos somethings not in the bible it dosent mean the bibles wrong, the bible makes out we are gods special creation so intelligent life would prove were not unique.
As a matter of fact theyve detected sugar in gas clouds in space theyve detected amino acids in meteorites older than the sun that MAY have been how life was started on earth. Theres methane being produced on mars and its higer during mars's summer our bext probs designed to discover if its organic or volcanic. By the way there is a shitload of water on mars its all ice we have life extremophiles that can survive in ice on earth. One of jupitors moons is mostly water the surface is frozen but the gravity forces of jupiter keeps the interior of the moon warmed so its real liquid h20 we know that life dosent need sunlight there are other ways to get energy.
So its quite likely 2 planets unknown numbers of asteroids and a moon have some form of life, that would make life far more common than we had thought.
Cool!
We know from studying extremophiles life can exist without sunlight i dont believe weve found anything living on earth that can exist without water but i dont claim to know everything.
My point is just that theres nothing that conclusively proves theres no life on mars or that moon of Jupiter. Were launching a robot to mars to determine if the methane is organic or volcanic.
The question of aliens doesn't really prove anything yet because none have been found. You can't point out the stupidity of people not believing in aliens when in fact there might not be any in the universe at all.
Personally though, I have no problem with God bringing about life somewhere else as well. The Bible doesn't say that life is only here on earth. Fundamentalist theists have pulled that from verses that aren't talking about aliens at all. And the Bible writers were writing about their own experiences. We can see in the old testament that they thought the earth was flat and that the sun moon and stars were just lights in the sky. And God wasn't interested in correcting their science. What was he going to do, explain the theory of relativity?
So, regarding the OP, you would believe; your God was also responsible for the creation of that life (alien life), but forgot to mention it in his book?
.. As for "What was he going to do, explain the theory of relativity?" .. Well he is an all knowing all powerful creator is he not? Quite frankly, yes, why wouldn't he explain something as important as the theory of relativity?
Why would he need to mention it in a book about earth? Plus, there might not be aliens anyway.
And no, it doesn't make sense for God to explain how the world works scientifically to humans. It would take longer than one persons lifetime just to explain the knowledge we have today, and we don't know the half of it. The Bible isn't interested in that. It's more about how we are to live in the world as a human.
Well which is it; a book about Earth or a book about how we are to live in the world as a human?
.. So you're telling me, everything we have discovered so far about the universe and life would have been pointless for him to mention at all? Even the fact that our planet is just one in a number so big you couldn't count in a lifetime?
Indeed, there might not be aliens, but the probability is that there are. So do you think the same God would have written a separate book for them, and not mentioned us in that one?
.. "It would take longer than one persons lifetime just to explain the knowledge we have today" - well we only have one lifetime to learn in! And of course we can't know everything. And of course, the intelligence we have today isn't from what we have discovered directly, but what other people have discovered. Our intelligence is built on the intelligence of those before us, that's the evolution of intelligence, and it isn't going to stop evolving. And it certainly seems that everything new we discover is going to continue to disprove religion.
.. Mental exercise: what if life was discovered, and aliens made contact with us, and knew nothing of God or religion?
"There might not be aliens, but the probability is that there are." Yeah, unless God created life on earth only. You forget you're talking to a theist.
That's like saying "Hey let's have a conversation about whether or not God exists, but before we start let's agree that he doesn't."
"And it certainly seems that everything new we discover is going to continue to disprove religion." This is called "god of the gaps." Basically, if we can explain something scientifically then god wasn't involved. We can explain more and more scientifically, so therefore the "gap" gets smaller. This is not how the Bible sees it though. The biblical perspective is that God is involved in it all.
The mental exercise is a little meaningless to me. Here's one for you: what if life was discovered, and aliens made contact with us, and they said "Of course God exists, you small minded, self-centred bunch of loonies."
How is it in any way like that! We're talking about aliens, not God. And, going with what we know so far; there's a high mathematical probability that aliens are out there, and zero probability that God is.
.. I didn't forget I'm talking to a theist, but I did forget how ludicrously irrational a theist can be.
It's more than the "God of the gaps" man. This is about the facts. Call everything we have discovered so far "Gods work" if you will. This still doesn't answer the question; If God is involved in it all, why would he not mention it, anywhere, ever?!
Well it was a mental exercise, an attempt to make you think. So it's only meaningless if you're not prepared to think, which undoubtedly is, of course, the case. But no worries, I understand how difficult thinking can be for a theist who only knows not to question but to obey like a good little slave. I thought it was still worth a try though.
.. I like your mental exercise :) okay, so.. First I would say: can you prove it? If yes, and I was satisfied with the evidence, I would change and accept God is real. If not, I would remain skeptical but be very interested in learning how their religion began.. Then I would question their comments; small minded and self centered?! Surely the most small minded and self centered assumption there ever was, is that all this wondrous planet and universe and everything in it was created for little old us.
My mind is open wide, and there is nothing more selfish than the belief that everything you see is here just for you. Grow up
That last comment reminds me of the Hitchhikers scene where zaphod discovers he actually is the centre of the universe. No, I'm actually ok with there being aliens. And I get why you'd see my beliefs as selfish. It doesn't work out like that for me practically though. It's more a wonder that God would care about us that much, small and insignificant as we are. And it's one of the reasons I spend my life caring for other people too. There are some self-centred Christians in the world who think God wants to make them rich (and there are some frickin fruit loops as well), but the ones who are following Jesus are usually getting better at putting other people first. Usually. That's why our symbol of choice is the cross.
Hey well considering my cover has been blown now, but it enabled me to put myself through the Total Perspective Vortex without killing myself! Sweet deal especially the cake! Otherwise I was unimpressed. And the only reason I was the center of the universe was because I was in an artificial universe created for me therefore making me the center of that universe and as such unable to die or be a part of it so I was the center of the artificial universe and the most important being in the artificial universe but not this one.
However, On the subject of God or at least the closest thing to it, the one who actually rules the universe once I finally did catch up with him who was actually a he, he was just this humble guy who lived in a shack oblivious to all of creation but himself and his cat only believing only in what he can see or hear at any given moment completely oblivious to anything else which was considered either unreal or uncertain to him. He was completely unaware of exactly who or what he was and therefore he was atheist or at the very least would take an agnostic view as uncertain.
According to the current theories of the multiverse, we could as a matter of fact each be the center of an entirely different universe. So, I'm on my way to the Total Perspective Vortex right now, since I'm hungry and cake sounds nice.
I'll be back if I survive!
agree, with that
He should have corrected their mistakes more people would have worshiped him and thats all god cares about.
Its mathematically impossible that the only life in the universe is us. Every factor that went into making us can be repeated so all you have to do is work out the probability of us being created then use that to divide the 500trillion galaxies x 500 trillion stars ( you could write 25 followed by 0's all day and not be done lol) its against the odds to claim that we are the only life in the universe. So we can call people stupid for believing were all there is.
Hell like i said theres a 85% probability theres bacteria on mars weve found methane in the atmosphere now methane can be volcanic but mars has no detectable volcanic activity so we sent a specialised robot to find out for sure.
If we found it it would show our probability math was out (and it is out or maths based on what would make us but other forms of life are possible) and lifes even more common than we thought.
Oh and thats only the stars we can detect scientists believe theres more out there beyond our detectable limits.
Yep, there is evidence that suggest that life begins in space itself.
For me, I find it amazing to think that people could believe that some sky daddy made us and only us. I mean how freaking arrogant.