Personally as an Atheist, I class myself as enlightened from the delusional oppression of religion. I sure many feel the same?
.. But I often see (and am guilty myself of) the attacking (not physically of course) of those do have faith in a religion. Which makes me wonder; What the fuck are we doing?!
Basically, when someones beliefs are attacked, generally it triggers a kind of "safe mode". Something similar to a child putting their fingers in their ears and screaming LALALALALA!!! .. My point is, this is actually reinforcing their belief and just brings hatred to the Atheist community. The arrogant belittling of Theists only strengthens their distorted perspective and gives them no reason why they should take on board a single word we say.
.. The moment we become insulting or in any way classing ourselves as "better" than those who are religious, we have failed. Not as Atheists, as a species. Always keep in mind, these people are, by no means, inferior to us. We too would be lost in religion had we been as heavily indoctrinated as them. It is through education and the environment we are raised in that lead to the rejection of religion, not through us being superior. We are not. We are the same. And only through rational logic and reason, along with challenging questions can we help a person to figure that out for themselves.
An absolute way of looking at it is; if you're not one of the ones cleaning up the mess, you're one of the ones making it
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Personally I like to give people reasonable doubt and elsewhere on the boards you can find many examples of me saying religion has it's place in the world and claiming there are openminded theist. I guess what I'm getting at is I don't go around picking fights with theist about their beliefs, but how can I say this right?....They attack atheist all the time and you can't be a pacifist all the time, especially when their actions are beginning to effect your life and the lives of others who may not share their beliefs. While it's true getting them to shutdown and board the train to la la land gets us all nowhere with some theist it doesn't take much, just simply not agreeing with their outlook can be conceived as an attack which will result in this shutdown you speak of.
To them an absolute way of putting it is; If your not with God your against God.
Sometimes completing a job requires that a mess be made.
Well said. I try to expose hypocrisy or correct lies theyve been told but thats as far as i purposely go. However i can be pushed to far. One of my buttons is 'its just a theory' i lose it im sorry but theres no excuse for saying that.
All true.. you've caused me to shift my train of thought on that one, BURN THEM!! Jokes! .. And yea I haven't read all your stuff yet but I can see you're not dumb :)
.. I do disagree with a couple of things though. I believe religion HAD it's place in the world, in the early stages of the evolution of the human mind when questions were asked that couldn't be answered and to say "we don't know" wasn't a good enough response for our terrifying unknowing. Now, coupled with our whole socioeconomic structure and this monetary system we live within, it is just destroying this planet. That is literally all it can do now. And personally about the open-minded theists. I see open-mindedness and religions as antithetical. For as long as one believes in a religion, they believe they have the answers to questions that are literally impossible for anyone to know, such as what happens to the "soul" after death. The only way a theist could be open-minded at the same time would be if they held their hands up n said "hey, but I might be wrong." How often does that happen? ... Hang on a minute, am I attacking them?!
.. And sure I know they attack us all the time, but it's more understandable for them to do it. At the end of the day we're dealing with deluded minds, ones who are not truly themselves. So they can't be held fully responsible for their actions.
.. And yea TOO true about it not taking much to put them on the lala train. But as soon as they do, it's time to walk away. If you put them in that position, it's because you made them think, n that's all we can do.
And yea I understand their absolute, I was just trying to emphasize the point of helping or making things worse. So if you help someone realize religion is basically a lie, you're cleaning, if you accidentally cause them to dive deeper into their delusion, you're making more of a mess.
You're right though, how can we say "we don't pick fights with theists" when to say we don't believe as they do is, to them, doing exactly that..
.. Fuck it, forget my post haha maybe there is no peaceful way?
I totally see your point, and I'm sure a lot of us here do. That's probably why we aren't trolling around theist sites and telling them that their imaginary friends aren't real. That, and it's a huge waste of time - most of us seem like the kind of people who have much better things to do.
However, they come here with that same nonsense. I see nothing wrong, when they come to an atheist board, to assert atheist beliefs. There's a not so fine line between "being the bigger person" and letting yourself be pushed around for no good reason beyond another person's unreasonably fragile ego. Saying it's more understandable when they do it and letting them get away with it for that reason is just as patronizing, and just as ridiculous, as hearing them say that it's understandable for us to attack them because we haven't been gifted with god's love. I don't think either view is necessarily the higher moral ground so much as the easy way out.
If I'm supposed to respect them, then I choose to treat them as respectable human beings. If they can't handle that, then that's going to have to be their problem. I don't really condescend to people all that often, and it's unfortunate that the truth (my interpretation of it) can occasionally be a bitter pill to swallow. It's my hope that it's therapeutic :)
As far as making "things" better or worse... I can see consequences to either course of action that could go either way, honestly. I don't think any extra good will come of letting their insanity go unchallenged.
Well said.
Sometimes it is just plain defense. Religious people think they have a dutie to save souls and destroy evil. They are on the war path (in the army of god) saving from or destroying what they fear. How can we help but respond with our defenses. I like to say to these people, that in judging my soul as going to hell, they have written their name in the seat beside me. If you put me in hell then I go to prepair a.place for you. Ha ha ha
I like that saying of yours! But it gets much more defensive than hell and and name calling In Ugunda, Iraq and other places Baptist and Evangelist kill yes you read that right KILL people for being gay. In many cases this murder is led by ministers from the US who wouldn't dare try it there so they go where they know they can get away with murder. In for example Kenyia Christians are burning people as witches alive I'll spare you guys the graphic video I usually link to when referencing it if you want to watch it though, you easily find it online. So far I have only mentioned Christians but honestly the list goes on and on. the Frontline of the war between Christianity and Muslim belief is being raged in Africa and the middle east and in areas where things are really violent It's no mystery why so many extremist come from these places. It doesn't matter if your not on any side your pretty much on the kill list. By the way the minute religions starts getting involved with politics is the moment these risk become very real. Of course saying so with only result in getting called names and being called ridiculous. Were not talking just uncomfortable empty threats of going to fictional places were talking real defense where peoples lives are being put on the line daily here right here on earth everywhere. For sure, if they find a loophole to get out of their Hell judgments saying they are warning us then they can't deny Killing people in the name of ect. or looking the other way while they know it happens earns them a one way ticket there with us.
I wonder if you saw the same documentary that I saw about Rick Warren and other notable (celebrity) evangelical clergymen who, in an effort to sell more books mostly, proselytized such a virulently homophobic brand of christianity that they inspired the Ugandan Parliament(?) to enact a law making homosexuality punishable by death.
Yes and believe usa should have tried them in criminal courts over that.
What they did was certainly wrong, but what would be the legal charge?
Contrary to popular belief, our legal system is more about maintaining civil peace and ethics than it is about morality.
For some it is more that the words. It is what we were abused into believing. At times it is a mental trip that makes a freed person want to scream. The repetition of god shit can be unbarable considering that you can never have the desire to go back after knowing the truth. Being labeled as one who needs salvation can get depressive or worse.
Agreed, but still there are things out there much worse than words to defend ourselves from.
That said, words can be very hurtful and as you say, " The repetition of god shit can be unbearable considering that you can never have the desire to go back after knowing the truth. Being labeled as one who needs salvation can get depressive or worse." It can even lead a person to suicide. In my opinion its mental abuse, sometimes this can be more painful than physical abuse and surely one can feel a need to defend themselves against this as well in some cases a person can feel they have few options and feel there is only fight flight or death left to choose from
But Death should never be what you choose for yourself however sometimes it is best to flee and live to fight another day.. you should feel free to discuss more about your situation here.
Oh shit i think ive figured out why religious people kill rape torture steal.
I think they know deep down that the lies used to indoctrinate them are wrong but have no healthy way to express those feelings.
I dont believe the majority even consciously are aware of the feelings.
What do you think?