Am I getting warmer?
I still do not believe a god was necessary for its start.
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@Fievel
"Time didn't start until the Big Bang?"
That's my understanding, as limited as it is.
"I still do not believe a god was necessary for its start."
I agree that's right logically. However, I think the question is unfalsifiable at the moment.
Unfalsifiable propositions have never stopped believers claiming anything they feel like claiming. (such as the existence of god(s) )
At the Catholic School I attended, I was told that time and space were created by god when he created everything else . Now they can't prove that claim, but neither can I disprove it, yet.
@cranky47
Agreed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr6nNvw55C4
Fact I guess is we just don't know.
@cranky47
You're worrying unnecessarily. The answer is explained in the Catholic catechism.
Job done. We need not trouble ourselves with questioning anything. Just emulate the example of Abraham in the bible who didn't question the "voices in his head" when they told him to tie his own child up, slit his throat, and burn the remains.
I'm not quite so sure how we can emulate the example of a woman purportedly raped by a deity in the form of a ghost, but the important thing is not to question any of it.
Uppety fucking scientists are to blame for all these questions, oh for the good old days of the inquisition, ah simpler times.
Never mind your fucking germ theory, it's a curse from god, n'uff said. Tectonic plate shift my arse, that tsunami was God's wrath, fucking tectonic fucking plates I ask you. You'll be telling us next humans are somehow related to chimpanzees ffs.
@Fievel: At least you posed it as a question and not a statement. You must be making progress. Cranky basically said it all.
@Cognostic
Yeah he pretty much covered it. ;-)
As I understand it, scientists proposed the big bang, when it was discovered that the universe is expanding. If it's expanding, it must have been smaller prior to today. If we project back thorough time, into the past, the universe must have been smaller and smaller than currently, (up that time). If we look back some 13.8 billion years, the universe, (undoing its expansion as we have measured it today), imagining it's contraction, it would then have been a tiny size, sometimes called a singularity. Under the conditions of such small-ness, the laws of physics break down, and time no longer works as it has since the big bang.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's a quote from an interesting article on the topic:-
. . .
Now, it's true that if you went to these extreme conditions, compressing all the matter and energy present in today's Universe into a tiny enough volume of space, the laws of physics would break down. You could try to calculate various properties, but you'd only get nonsense for answers.
. . .
Did Time Have A Beginning?
Starts With A Bang
Ethan Siegel: Senior Contributor
Starts With A Bang: Contributor Group
URL:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2019/06/07/does-time-have-a...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As you said @Fieval: "Fact I guess is we just don't know".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cheers Mutorc
I don’t believe time
Exists.. it’s something to count.
@Italianish
"I don’t believe time
Exists.. it’s something to count."
I Do.
That I am now an old man and can clearly remember being a young man pretty much says it all for me
I'm not sure to what degree, if any, our concept of linear time is a social construct . I seem to remember reading a claim that everything happened at once. That our concept of time is an illusion.
During my studies, I did come across a tribe in the Pacific which has an holistic concept of time. I could not grasp that concept.
I can't remember the name of the tribe. So I guess my claim needs to be treated as being based on anecdotal evidence.
@ Italianish
"I don’t believe time
Exists.. it’s something to count."
I can prove you are wrong.
Sloppy minds engage in sloppy speculation.
Fievel: Which version of time?
What do you mean by "Which version of time"?
Why because Christians believe on a 6,000 year time frame and we believe in science which tells us the universe and actual facts point to no god?
13.8 Billion years for the universe only like 4.5 billion years for Planet Earth or something. The universe expanded and didn't get to us for like 9. some billion years. Six days my as*
Time is not a fundamental property of nature—what means is that there are certain fundamental properties in nature at the very basic level, which is at atomic sub-particle level, like particle charge, mass, spin, or position but time is not one of them—instead time is an emergent phenomenon. It’s measurement of entropy. With every passing moment the atoms in universe decay and lose usable energy and entropy of the universe increases.
This change in entropy is conceptualized using time.
Hume; Interesting. Am I saying something similar? My perception of time has always been that of a ruler. It does not matter where you set it, what the increments are, or how long it is. All that matters is that we agree to use it. We create the ruler to measure changes in the states of mass and energy. The ruler does not move when being used but it is everything else that moves and changes against the backdrop of time.
Just curious what someone interested in the topic thinks. I don't know where I came up with this but when people start talking about time..... this is what I imagine. It is not TIME that moves but rather it is US.
@Cognostic
"We create the ruler to measure changes in the states of mass and energy." - Yup. Agree.
Time has also been used as a dimension in Einstein's theory of special relativity.
Basically we cannot separate time from space in the sense that any event always occur in a place (space spot) and at a time (when). So if your friend asks you to meet him at Main St & Broadway, this proposal is meaningless unless he also tells you at what time. This will be the meaningful coordinates of a four dimension space time.
Classic physics earlier to Einstein assumed that time is same everywhere in the universe and is a constant property of the universe and has a constant rate - this is not true however as per special theory of relativity because the rate of time at which an object moves from an observer's point of view depends on the velocity of the object relative to the observer.
Eistein's theory of general relativity then further builds up on it and includes gravity into the picture positing that gravity warps space & time. For this reason, the rate of time at higher elevation (mountain, for example) will be higher compared to at ground at sea level. This rate difference between both is really really very small but you can use an atomic clock to measure it and it has been proven in experiments. So people who live in mountains age at faster rate than at seal level. Of course, we are talking about very negligible amount of time here and practically speaking it doesn't really amount to much.
@Hume Re: Space/Time/Gravity
Thank you for that. Very clearly explained. As a kid I grew up watching "Nova", 'Cosmos", and any other similar shows I could find, because the subject matter has always fascinated me. That fascination has carried over into my adult years as well. And it is always refreshing when somebody is able to explain such complex things in a simple, easy-to-understand manner the way you just did.
I apologize if I repeat anyone here: so I will keep it short.
Time, is a human made concept of measurement. We measure one thing to compare it to another.
We do not know what is before the big bang, at least not yet. We have no way to detect this stuff, yet. But one possibility is nothing. If there is nothing to "measure" there is no time. Big bang gave things humans can measure, like events, measuring one to another. And we come up with "time" A highly useful measuring tool.
Look up how the atomic clock that keeps the world time, works. We humans are using that highly consistent event to measure all other events to it.
We humans recently managed to slow down recording of an event enough to even catch light/photons itself in movement. With a lab created specialized camera that can record many billions, trillions? of frames per second.
I'll buy that. One event to measure another event. Makes sense to me.