I was outside this morning picking up sticks and cutting wood I let “dry” over the winter. It got me to thinking...
Numbers 15:32-36
32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him. (NOTE: love this little “surprise” for the guy)
35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.
Deut. 23:13
Carry a stick as part of your equipment, so that when you have a bowel movement you can dig a hole and cover it up. (to be fair some translations say spade [digging instrument])
Roughly 2.5 million Israelites wandering the desert. That’s a butt load of sticks!!!! No wonder the above guy was out when no one else was, gathering sticks (he’s the equivalent of a toilet paper hoarder)...
Not as though there’s any evidence of the wilderness 40 yr hike, but, fuck that’s funny!
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@White
Oh poo. I thought you were going posting about a game I played as child.
The sticks were about a foot long and looked like brightly coloured knitting needle, in many colours, with a point at each end.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/pick-up-sticks
Unlike say Wahhabi Muslims, even the ultra orthodox Jews have moved on. EG They no longer kill people for adultery, kill recalcitrant children nor indeed do they sell their daughters into slavery for a range of reasons.
Ok, literalist christians are fond of quoting Leviticus*** about gays, but generally ignore the rest of The Law [of Moses] , which consists of 613 commandments, known collectively as 'the mitzvot'. Imo, that's a perfect example of cherry picking at its most egregious..
I can actually understand that law in context of a small nomadic tribe 2000+ years ago. To the Jew then and now the family was everything. It was the duty of every Jew to marry and produce offspring. I think the reasoning might have been that a gay person would not meet that obligation. Not saying I agree with that simplistic logic and naivete but in context, possibly.
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OT: From Richard Carrier recently; Jews traditionally had no concept of an afterlife, neither heaven nor hell. They obeyed YHWH because he was a complete cunt and smote them viciously if they did not, in this life.
***Leviticus 18:22 :‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." (NASB)
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." (ESV, NKJV)
20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them." (NASB)
"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." (ESV
All those detailed instructions on where how and when to stone gays and evil Sabbath stick carriers but not a word about wiping your bum or washing your hands afterwards. On top of this in Mark 7:2 Jesus poo-poos washing hands before meals.
The Bible is clearly homophobic as well as anti-hygienic.
And in Psalm 91 which some fundamentals offer as proof they are Covid-19 safe, nada about handwashing, safe toilet practice, clean wound management, moist breath zones or picking of nasal cavities. Its a wonder the WHO haven't moved on this. And if all this lack of health information wasn't enough the creator god also created germs, bacteria, and viruses and says absolute nothing about them as if they are meant to be a surprise.
No doubt about it this god wants us all to die.
No doubt about it, the buybull was written by stupid goat herding idiot mythology fanboys, who's logic for discovering truths = god.
@ White
"Roughly 2.5 million Israelites wandering the desert. That’s a butt load of sticks!!!! No wonder the above guy was out when no one else was, gathering sticks (he’s the equivalent of a toilet paper hoarder)"
I can't help imagining the devout Yahewist Israelite having eaten his share of mana, frantically, guiltily, combing the Sinai Peninsular, on the Sabbath, looking for a stick, bursting for a shit, and trying to avoid raising any suspicions of his stone-happy tribe members. Its the sort of conditions that lead to the practice of prayer.
Even digging the hole to poo in would have been seen as a violation of the Sabbath laws. The day after the Sabbath the entire 2.5 million Israelite nomads must have been out digging up the surrounding desert. The mind boggles.
@Grinseed
"Roughly 2.5 million Israelites wandering the desert. That’s a butt load of sticks!!!! No wonder the above guy was out when no one else was, gathering sticks (he’s the equivalent of a toilet paper hoarder)"
The official Jewish position is that the Exodus occurred during the reign of Ramses the Great. At that time the world population was about 30 million. The population of Egypt was between 2 and 5 million.
After consulting my National Geo Atlas, I also find it hard to believe it took Moses and his mob 40 years to travel from Egypt to Canaan , which is all of 100 km (62 miles) ---Of course this is assuming Moses wasn't an Aussie bloke. It's written in 'The Official Guide For The bewildered Aussie Male.' (also available on YouTube for those who can't read good) that : Under no circumstances is an Aussie male ask for directions should he become lost whilst driving or otherwise travelling. Nor is he to consult an instruction book or users guide. Such knowledge will eventually come to him by osmosis. That's why it takes him 6 weeks to put an IKEA bookcase together.
Two other minor, but real points; Egypt had slaves, but not to the degree of say Rome or Greece whose societies depended on slavery. Egyptian slaves tended to be prisoners or war who were released after a time.
PLUS The Jews WERE CANAANITES! (But not all Canaanites were Jews.)
Historical Israel" was a subset of Canaanite culture, some experts hold, and document why
Hebrews are known as the ancestors of the Israelites, who used the Hebrew language. Israelites were the writers of the Hebrew Bible. Yet, in the Bible the word Hebrews is also used as a synonym for Israelites, the theological and historical ancestors of the Jews. and it is noted that Hebrews were a motley crew, for most part Canaanites. Jonathan Tubbs, a British archeologist, argues that the Israelites were themselves Canaanites, and that "historical Israel", as distinct from "literary" or "Biblical Israel" was a subset of Canaanite culture. Canaan when used in this sense refers to the entire Ancient Near Eastern Levant down to about 100 AD, including the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Mark Smith adds, "Israelite culture was largely Canaanite in nature." [Wiki, s.v. "Canaan"]
http://oaks.nvg.org/hebrews.html
@ Cranky, wait til you get your next cuppa tea to read this.
Six weeks!?! Sure it's not the Kiwis, you're thinking of. I'm still working on an Ikea coffee table I started 18 months ago, but we're getting there, I keep telling my patient partner, we're getting there...its lookin' good.
From what I have read, I agree with Jonathon Tubbs that Canaanite is more a geographical term which gets applied to anyone having lived there.
In Genesis 10, after the Flood, one of Ham's sons, Canaan, settles in the land that now bears his name and he is the patriarch of Jebusites, Amorites, Gigshites, Hivites, Arkites, Sinites, Arvadites, Zemites and Hamathites who are tribes living in Canaan. So these guys qualify as Canaanites but they aren't Jews or Hebrews.
Then later comes Abraham. He has a whole mess of children with Sarah, Keturah and unnamed, unnumbered concubines. Its only Isaac who inherits his father's god-given stake in Canaan. The rest, which includes Ishmaelites, Edomites, Amalekites, Kenizzites, Midianites, plus his nephew Lot's two sons who father the Ammonites and Moabites are all directed to find living space further east and south in the Sinai Peninsula.
Then Isaac has twin sons, Esau and Jacob. Jacob swindles Esau out of his inheritance to Canaan, gets renamed Israel, and his twelve sons are the 'children of Israel', patriarch of the twelve tribes. I am assuming these guys are the Jews. They are definitely the original Isaelites
You have raised the idea of the Hebrews being "a motley crew".
There's a tenuous idea that the word Hebrew comes from various names Apiru, Hapiru and Habiru, which are found in hundreds of documents all over the Fertile Crescent from 2000 BC to 1200 BC and refer to a widely dispersed fluid group of itinerant peoples who lived on the fringes of more established societies. They comprised labourers, runaway slaves, servants, probably just working class folk who are tarnished by their association with mercenaries, thieves, and even murderers basically considered lower class inferiors by their 'more civilised' contemporaries and its likey they were treated as such.
It is one contention that all of the stories of Genesis originate from a unified tribal culture that coalesced out of group of Habiru, who had taken up residence around the Jordan; a culture that developed its own language and cosmology borrowing heavily from already established ones, which would account for the similarities between Mesopotamian and Genesis legends.
There is another reason why the Habiru might have been encouraged to form a unified community: the incursions of the Sea People who began their raids about 1280-1180 BC. The mysterious Sea People were like the later Vikings in England, and created a lot of disruption in their 100 year reign of terror along the Mediterranean coast and of Egypt. They are even credited with forcing what is called the collapse of the Bronze age and a significant weakening of Egypt's power. It's likely lots of people deserted the coastal plains and Egypt itself for the safety of the hills of Canaan and in a natural response the Habiru closed ranks and formed tribal groups to fend off the refugees. It might also explain the origins of the Exodus and Joseph and Moses, in grander terms than just a influx of refugees. And as noted above, the Habiru aren't recorded after 1200 BC. This allows two hundred years of consolidation of the Habiru tribes before the crowning of Saul as the first king of Israel around 1050 BC.
I don't know if there is any compelling evidence for the Habiru theory but it makes as much sense as whats in Genesis if not more. All the tribe and family names are typically mixed up in a confusing jumble and its generally hard to follow whose who, but then as far as I care, its all only as historical as Game of Thrones.
I'm going off to put another leg on the coffee table, maybe.
Your story got me thinking, and though it's a tenuous link to blasphemy, here goes.
I opened a tub of margarine a while back, and on the surface was the face of Jesus. So I showed it to a Thai friend, and he said...."I can't believe it's not Buddha."
@ Shelley
"I can't believe it's not Buddha."
I don't know who you are but when I do I will hunt you down and kill you......I shall now torture my step daughter with that one who will also no doubt hunt you down and kill you twice.....
I've been getting a similar reaction in work. Funny, it made me laugh outloud. I do have a weird sense of humour tbh.
@ Sheldon
I haven't stopped laughing all day over your story, but I'm a coarse and disrespectful bugger, who likes a good joke better than anything.
When I do stop, I might set up a small shrine to it. When I hear you have been murdered twice I shall convert the shrine to a memorial or possibly a small temple to pray for your condemned soul, OK?
@ Grinseed
I can never hear the word soul now, without hearing Kenny Everett singing it with a full choir repeating it, imagine a southern drawl as he bellowed save our souls, and the choir repeatedly ahhh sowls...
Still cracks me up nearly 40 years on...
@Sheldon
'
"I opened a tub of margarine a while back, and on the surface was the face of Jesus. So I showed it to a Thai friend, and he said...."I can't believe it's not Buddha."
Good thing for you there's probably no hell after that pun.
Below a link to a clip of Alice Tinker (Emma Chambers) at her best, or worst depending on how you look at it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPsSzLnXJkg
IF you have never seen 'The Vicar of Dibley', do yourself a favour and watch a bit.
My favourite line is from the acerbic David Horton character. In response to a suggestion in which he has no interest, quoth he ; "I'd rather eat my own scrotum"
"@Sheldon
'
"I opened a tub of margarine a while back, and on the surface was the face of Jesus. So I showed it to a Thai friend, and he said...."I can't believe it's not Buddha."
Good thing for you there's probably no hell after that pun.
Below a link to a clip of Alice Tinker (Emma Chambers) at her best, or worst depending on how you look at it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPsSzLnXJkg slope game
IF you have never seen 'The Vicar of Dibley', do yourself a favour and watch a bit.
My favourite line is from the acerbic David Horton character. In response to a suggestion in which he has no interest, quoth he ; "I'd rather eat my own scrotum" "
Yes, I think you're right