Everybody here rejects the imaginary god and pretend divinity in the sky.
Now if only you people can reject that secular god which calls itself government.
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The problem is that this other god really has the power to punish you unlike the imaginary one.
The government only has the power that we give it, Rob...
Only because people allow themselves to be herded around.
What I am getting at here is that as an atheist I find it ironic how other atheists embrace government as a sort of substitute secular version of god.
Hmmm, never thought if it that way not sure if I know of any atheist that embrace as you say the government as a sort of substitute secular version of God. Is there anyone on the forums who does this?
I do think I do know one atheist at least who treats politics in a manner I have found to be rather seemingly secular and blindly follows his faith in his political party without question. I have debated this with him and he made a point that I find interesting though foolish. He said "When you pick a side you agree then and there to be on that side on all issues not just the issues that you care about or pertain to your interest." I could not help but feel then and there that under that logic, I not able to surrender my thoughts and beliefs just to be on a side should then not pick any side..
I did not mean to word it that all atheists approach government as god like but what I was trying to reference is that a great deal of many do.
Mikhail you have a very good point. The governments of the world think they are above the laws of man and of nature. What could possibly be worse than a government with the power to do whatever they wish any time they want? They have taken our health care to give it to those who choose not to work for it, they want to take our guns so we are unarmed and I don't dare think what they will do next!
Government is the new god and those within it's halls of power make it no secret that they view themselves as gods of us all.
We live in what I like to describe as a monetary theocracy where government itself is the head.
What happened in the enlightened era at the turn of the nineteenth century is that we've substituted a god in heaven for a more material based god on earth which as an entity we call government. Still the old religious metanarratives pervade the newer secular version...
With our new "god" we have its angels (drones) and it demons (congress) and everything else that could come with a modern day farcical religion. I don't know what's worse, the sheep who believe in organized religion or the wolves in our current government.
Politicians are the new priests and government the new church. Let it be called secular theology.
Define government. Is it mom telling kids not to eat candy corn for supper? Is it a CEO telling employees not to engage in workplace discrimination? Is it a municipal police officer telling a person they can't drive drunk? Is it a state managing a park? Is it a country maintaining an interstate highway system? Was it a Highland Clan chieftain ensuring there was enough to eat for the group? Is it a baseball coach?
Organizations and societies require structure. Are there peeps who end up adoring the structures? Sure. Are there some who become bosses instead of leaders? Sure.
The notion of government isn't bad or evil. It is necessary and won't ever go away. It is a natural result when people come together in groups. There will also always be peeps who disagree with the activities in which that government is engaging. Always. So the real trick is staying vigilant that those in boss/leadership positions aren't overstepping what is reasonable/sensible and balance that with any disagreement...an ever present and delicate balancing act.
Government is a tyrannical organization that seeks to control and enslave everybody while claiming to have a monopoly in interpreting objective meaning, purpose, or existence for everybody else.
It's a organization that seeks to tear away everybody's self sufficiency of self governing themselves to a type of slave dependency that makes sure any form of independence is impossible. It's religion is money in what can be described as a hyper monetary theocracy.
The notion of government is one of tyranny. There is no such thing as a rational or good government.
In the electronic era of the super surveillance police state this new god now claims to be omnipotent and omniscient.
Sounds to me you've bought into the government koolaid perhaps. I don't know because I'm unacquainted with you.
You can prove me wrong.
Are you a pious devout follower of government?
Wow. There is, in anything, what could be described as zero to one hundred. The pendulum swings from one end to the other with many, many points in between. It sounds, from your post, that you are at one end of that swing and you assume that anyone not there with you is at the complete opposite side of the swing. Not so...
The point I am making is that there is good and bad to many things. I do not think it is all or nothing. I absolutely disagree that *all* government is tyranny, provides no benefit, or is irrational. Is the extreme that way? Yes. And not all. Is the extreme all there is? No.
As I said, all organizations have structure and bosses/leadership. That is an ineluctable result of organizations of any type. Not all are evil, not all are great. They vary. Period. And always will.
Our jobs, as members, is to ensure the pendulum does not swing too far in either direction.
Your post sounds rife with anger. Perhaps you have been injured by some boss/leader. Please don't, because of that, throw the baby out with the bath water.
You ask if I am a "pious, devout follower of government." No, I am one who always has and always will question authority while understanding the social drive and sense of structure.
Grab a clue, we are social creatures. Social creatures, by their nature, implement hierarchical structure.
Sounds to me that you're a man that more than likely lives a privileged lifestyle under government which is probably why you are staunchly supporting it.
You don't agree that all governments are tyrannical? Name one single so called good or rational government then.
We are social creatures but the type of hierarchical structures we have are not natural.
You accept these sort of notions I think because I get the feeling you are in the middle or upper segment of the hierarchy.
The greatest staunch supporters of government are always those that benefit from its existence.
If you were on the bottom like so many of us are you would understand the unnatural view of this hierarchical structure that you have thrown around as some sort of justification here for the belief in government.
Government is the new god and religion.
Classism is the new caste system.
Anarchism is the atheism of this god that calls itself government.
Well, first, many assumptions you've made about me are incorrect.
Second, if you are drinking water from a faucet, driving on a road, turning on a lamp, etc., then YOU, according to what you said above, must also be a "staunch supporter of government who is benefitting from its existence."
You get the feeling I'm in the middle or upper segment of some hierarchy....what hierarchy and what are these segment parameters?
And, if what I touched on about hierarchies describes one that is unnatural, what do you propose *is* a natural one? What, specifically, do you propose is the result of the anarchism you suggest?
Were Harvey Milk, Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, Gandhi, Mandela, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, etc., tyrants?
If you support government in any sort of way that makes you a supporter of tyranny.
Spare me your saintly emblematic historical figures.
Here's the deal...if one goes away, another *will* replace it. Period. All social species are hierarchically organized. They cannot and will not ever be otherwise.
well put cyber. Mikhail are you apart of Anonymous? If not you should definitely look into them because I think you would like them.
I'm just an anarchist and atheist both who has figured out the ruse that calls itself government.
Government has supplanted religion and god. I don't understand why some people can't understand this revelation.
What's your citizenry? Are you a U.S. Citizen?