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Are you saying your deity made morally questionable choices in the OT, or that what is purported to be laws obtained from your deity is in fact entirely man made?
If the latter, then surely that would rationally infer that the bible is wholly unreliable? As there is no objective method to separate errant man made myths from divinely inspired texts? Both claims can't simultaneously be true after all.
I sure don't infer that the Bible is wholly unreliable. I do believe it contains wisdom and divine inspiration, but I can't deny it has man's error documented as well. Much like all things in life, I journey through that collection of 66 books and try to separate the wheat from the chaff. I personally find a lot of wheat.
If you want to call it all chaff for the parts that offend and can't get any good out of it, then that's your choice.
Homer, very fair point.
@Homer
Well of course a bible filled with superstitious errant claims, with the odd profound piece of text mixed in here and there, is precisely what one would expect from such an archaic text if its origins were entirely human.
@Homer
"It contains many bad laws..."
Oh for fuck sake! You have no idea, do you.
Hammurabi's laws, Egyptian Laws and Mosaic Law (all 613 commandments, not just 10) were not bad laws AT THE TIME THEY WERE INVENTED, BY MEN!!
Like Mosaic law after it, Hammurabi's code was about compensation. The concept still exists under Sharia Law, where blood money may still be paid for a death.
Even ultra orthodox Jews have moved on since about 700 bce, when the Torah was written down,. EG they no longer kill people for adultery nor sell their daughters into slavery when times get tough. Nor indeed do they kill a recalcitrant child-----
Sharia law is harsh by modern sensibilities, because those who practice it are still living in the seventh century.
I guess that's a problem with absolute moral codes. Holders of such beliefs are forced into the idiotic position of trying to argue what is wrong today has always been wrong.
If that's so, then god must be judged by those same values: EG God demanding that Abraham sacrifice his beloved son. Even though it was just a test, it was a cruel and immoral thing for God to---and too the trials of job--but what really takes the biscuit is god punishing all of human kind forever because Adam and Eve fucked up. Second only to that is god destroying the entire world, and every man woman and child, in a flood. ------There is no doubt in my mind; YHWH of the Torah is a monster ;jealous petty, cruel, vindictive ,and genocidal, to mention only a few of his qualities.
@cranky47
You're on form today if I may say so.
I think people need to note that missionaries sincerely believe they are doing what is right. And frankly, I myself think they are righteous in their crusades.
I don't know about this African culture you speak of, but if a certain culture regardless of the country of origin involves terrible things like sacrificing people for bountiful harvest, then for crying out loud conquer them. OPPRESS THEM and root out such a practice from their culture.
There comes a point when moral absolutism should prevail.
... *clapping excitedly*.... Oh, hey! Look, everybody! The Big Dick has joined us to spew his seeds of wisdom all over us. Let us all bask in the afterglow of his divine ejaculations!
Re: Big Dick - "OPPRESS THEM and root out such a practice from their culture. There comes a point when moral absolutism should prevail."
... *blank stare*.... Three syllables: Ho-ly fuck...
@ TM
*blank stare*.... Three syllables: Ho-ly fuck...
No no that's not how you say it...try "Sieg Heil" and repeat loudly.
@Maxos: Great idea! Let's conquer the bastards. We can begin with the Catholics, hit all the conservative Christian faiths, blow the fuck out of Islam, and then find ways to cull the remaining Christians. What a great idea. Regardless of the country of origin if these fucking religions are robbing from the poor, trading food for prayers, refusing to take their ill to the doctor, engaging in delusional practices, OPRESS THEM and root such practices out of our culture.
@Maxos Goober
"There comes a point when moral absolutism should prevail"
Interesting sentence. You've managed to combine an unfounded claim AND a moral judgement
Do you think we could break it into two ideas?
What is so wonderful about moral absolutism?
A serious question. My own position is that of moral relativism. I am also a skeptic, so try to avoid certitude and dogmatism. ---the skeptic is not simply a scoffer .
Above all, the skeptic questions. IMO the most important things to question are one's own most powerful l beliefs .Don't know how it works for you. In my life I've found the more certain I am about a thing the more likely l am to be wrong. Not a semantic trick, merely recognition that there are few certainties in life. So far, I've yet to find one in the category of metaphysics .
"Should prevail"? A claim and not an argument. Why?
It would be peachy if you could base your answer on say reason and or evidence, instead of a faith based claim.
I disagree with both claims, firstly its absurd to generalise about the mindset, but it is highly unlikely they all believe sincerely in what many of them are forced to do as a right of passage. As for it being moral, based on what moral end goal is forcing your cultures religious superstition on others a moral act?
Are Islamic State moral? They seem to have the same selfish need to convert the entire world to their own beliefs.
@Maxos Goober: if a certain culture regardless of the country of origin involves terrible things like sacrificing people for bountiful harvest, then for crying out loud conquer them. OPPRESS THEM and root out such a practice from their culture
Great idea. Let's start with people who mutilate their children's genitals, who rape little children, and who indoctrinate children with crackpot origin myths. When we've finished civilizing the Jews, Muslims, Catholics, and evangelist Christians, we can turn our attention to the subhuman savages of the Westboro Baptist Church.
Religious people think they know everything because they have god...hence the supreme being arrogance is born. When in fact objective evidence shows their intellect as sub par...which is nothing to be arrogant about. It is reason for atheists to laugh at them however. LOL.
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