I am a Christian struggling for answers, I know this isn't exactly the right place but please give me your opinion.
It starts with a simple question: Why did God create us? Well, there is pretty much only one answer. Because he wanted to right? However think about this, VERY few people compared to everyone actually get into heaven. As the bible says in Matthew 7:13 "You can enter God's Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way." It definitely wouldn't be a stretch to say most people go to hell. However God is ALL KNOWING, he KNEW that if he created us most of us would suffer unimaginable torture FOREVER! Knowing this he created humanity, he created us knowing that even if we are Christians we endure a tough road following our religion, and that the world tends to mock us. That even if we make it past all that and got into heaven, we would still have to watch everyone else be tortured forever. Those who aren't Christians simply get tortured forever in hell. Either way WE suffer on the whims of a God who created us for HIS sake.
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Well, Ethan, you've made a ton of assumptions. First, you assume there's actually a god. Before any of your other questions and thoughts can be addressed, you might want to first consider that assumption.
You seem to have misunderstood my entire point for posting this, bravo good sir.
"I am a Christian struggling for answers, ...please give me your opinion."
Was this not your entire point for posting this? If so, then she understood it perfectly. Your response here indicates that you are not really looking for answers or others' opinions. So what is your true agenda?
Perhaps the reason that you struggle with answers is that you're asking the wrong questions.
And perhaps I'll continue to struggle with answers because you aren't actually telling me anything helpful.
I don't know exactly what you were expecting by asking the question "Why did God create us?" here. Might as well ask "Why does the tooth fairy collect teeth?". We don't think the tooth fairy is real, and we don't think god is real.
Ethan , I think you pretty much understood the main teaching of Christianity.
It is not describing a loving god but a merciless god that would only allow those that submit to his will and be his slaves mentally and physically that can pass through the Narrow Gate.
like any other evil cult Christianity champions the idea of letting only the chosen few in. Those who accept their fate of being slaves of god.
It was created in a period that slavery was the main driving force of the economy. The Romans had such a philosophy that all their subjects(slaves/gentiles/etc..) must accept the emperor as their god and be his slaves.
Thank you your opinion has been helpful unlike everyone else.
If you wish to know why the christian theology is in this manner and WHY there are so many unanswered questions and contradictions, I suggest you watch (more then once) this video:
https://vimeo.com/69145519
It does explain WHO created Christianity WHEN and WHY.
It answers a lot of those questions and it always helps to know your own history and the history of Christianity itself.
I would say that it is probably a good thing you don't understand it, as that would point to a sort of universal Stockholm Syndrome, you are much better off not being able to comprehend how that is love. Hell, you would about have to be an idiot to confuse that with love, but that doesn't stop people from trying. I think it is the same mental phenomena that causes serial killers to receive love letters and marriage proposals...
I'm not sure if there is an atheist member who can understand god's love if they don't believe in god. It is indeed not easy to understand. I was a Christian for more than 20 years and just when I get out of Christianity I realized that I really did not understand god's love at all.
Religion is man-made to control the masses out of fear. The bible (and other holy books) are made up of fairy-tales, fables and stuff that plain does not make sense. These books were written by MEN with their own perceptions of belief. I mean, "IF" there is an all loving god, why would god send good people (even children) to hell just because they believe in the wrong religion? What if you are raised to believe a different religion? So, a perfectly good and loving person is to be sent to hell just because they don't believe a certain way? I don't think so.
I tried church out when I had my first child. I felt the need to have something spiritual and loving in mine and my child's life. The day the pastor preached to the congregation, that we had to get baptized or we would be sent to a firey hell, was the day I lost all faith in religion and I never went back. The god I had pictured before I decided to go to church, was not what they were preaching and made no sense to me.
Since then, I have done a lot more reading and I am very comfortable not believing in a religion. Matter of fact, I feel free and more loving now, than I did when I craved the confirmation of a higher power. It's liberating to be a free thinker and question the meaning of life. I am here to live and learn and grow as an individual. I am not here to bow to a man-made god.
At the risk of actually being helpful:
If you choose to believe and obey a god such as this, then that is simply the way it is. You have to accept that everyone who has ever lived who is not a Christian (a REAL one, as well) is doomed to suffer an eternity of torment and those who accept the child-blood sacrifice will live forever in some nondescript paradise.
You seem to be very concerned with the possibility of going to hell.
You are asking atheists for their opinions and advice.
We do not believe that God or heaven or hell actually exist.
Your refusal to accept our answers shows a marked closed mindedness on your part.
You are asking the wrong questions because you can't get your head out of your religious indoctrination.
Hell doesn't exist !
Stop worrying about it and get on with the rest of your life.
Ask questions that have some relevance to the real world and broaden your view a little.
You are wrong, unlike you Jeff Vella Leone actually helped answer what I was asking in this post. Take some of your own advice and don't be closed minded in thinking you are right and swe Christians are instantly wrong.
The questions you are asking are the beginning of realizing the truth. It seems you have only begun your journey and your getting answers from those who have already discarded what you still believe in, so the answers does not match your expectations.
If you keep going, you will find that nothing of Christianity makes any sense.
God, who is supposed to be a perfect being, demands worship from humans.
Why would a perfect being require worship?
God, is supposed to be all knowing, then why create this world and why create humans?
An all knowing being would already know every possible outcome, and it would just be an exercise in futility.
God is supposed to love humans and be all powerful. Yet he does nothing to help innocent suffering people.
And if we do not please him he inflicts horrible torture forever.
Then why would he even give humans gives us free will, when we are not supposed to be allowed to use it?
Jesus shows up and is supposed to make the religion about love and tolerance, yet he says that the old testament is not to be discarded and he does not condemn slavery.
Even if you were to throw out the old testament, that would mean that Genesis is gone and that the ten commandments are gone.
Why would a loving, all powerful God has his own human son killed "for us"? Not only that, but we are supposed to eat his flesh and drink his blood during communion! (at least if you are catholic)
That is human sacrifice! Is that really something to celebrate? To wear symbols of?
Jesus sacrificed himself for our sins. But he is immortal, how is that a real sacrifice on his part?
A three day vacation then off to heaven?!
How come the Bible is full of contradictions?
Why is there not one bit of text that actually is something a person living in the bronze age could have made up?
How come God forgot to mention dinosaurs, trilobites, bacteria, viruses, galaxies, black holes? Or even something simple as that fact that the Earth is a planet and not flat?
The questions just go on and on, until you realize it is all just a load of bulls**t.
Each day the foothold for religion is shrinking as we discover the answers to more and more questions.
The religious have many reasons to refuse to let go and see reality for what it is...
Fear of death, fear of the unknown. Fear of accepting that the loved ones who are gone, are not in heaven but are actually gone. Fear of accepting that it has all been a lie, that all that time invested in religion was wasted, that we don't have all the answers, that no one is watching over us, that no one is listening to our prayers. Fear of accepting that those who fed them with these lies, were either deceiving or deceived.
Then there is of course those who get lots and lots of power and money from religion.
This is a video about how easy the human mind gets fooled by superstition and irrationality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWo3kTYb8W0
Sorry, a couple of mistakes in my text:
Then why would he even give humans g̶i̶v̶e̶s̶ ̶u̶s̶ free will.
... that actually is something a person living in the bronze age c̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ couldn't have made up?
Yep pragmatic, pointing out more contradictions does help the question he asked but i think he is looking for answers for those questions rather then just accepting that they are most probably made up.
I think, that knowing the origin of those claims will help him, I feel I was in his position long time ago, where I was looking for answers.
Sure, you may be right Jeff.
Unfortunately, it seems to have become the theme of this thread: not quite getting what Ethan is asking.
If it is the truth of how Christianity became what it is today he is after, then I leave it to you. :)
The problem is that you are basing your religion off of a book written by forty different men over a period of 4,000 years. Make your own opinions, don't follow others' opinions.
Ethan, you come onto this site, start a string asking for people to give their opinions, and when that is done, you flip shit to some of those generously taking their time to provision that opinion. That is fascinating and very telling behavior. From your responses, I can extrapolate that either you do not, in fact, want those opinions, or you crafted your OP poorly and without the clarity necessary to effectively communicate that which you were actually after.
Or it's a slightly more lucid incarnation of kenny.
You are wrong, unlike you Jeff Vella Leone actually helped answer what I was asking in this post. I am grateful for those who gave me their time but I hate when people assume they know what I'm like, much like what you're doing.
To clarify what I think Ethan is asking for everybody else that wish to reply to him.
He is asking:
According to the Christian Theology, "Why did God create us?"
"Either way WE suffer on the whims of a God who created us for HIS sake."
Yes, the theology teaches that, just like a typical roman slave in the roman period. That is what the Romans wanted the slaves to think about their emperor so they do not revolt.
-They give to Caesar what is to Caesar, (always pay your taxes)
-give the other cheek, (like any good slave would do when beaten)
-obey their masters whatever they do, (even unjustly)
-do not listen to the most educated jews but to some fisherman, (the jews were at war with Rome and were inciting the slaves to revolt)
-the least will be first. (in the next life, to make the slaves accept this as a blessing)
-suffer in this life and it will be rewarded in the afterlife,( again to make the slaves accept their fate)
-forgive the tax collectors that steal (like jesus did, follow the way of jesus is the message, so the slaves do not revolt but submit to roman rule)
-you are a sinner thus you are guilty (guilty people do not rebel against their masters)
-sinners require salvation and only Jesus can provide which forces you to ask for a priest for help.(priests worked for the Romans)
More info:
https://vimeo.com/69145519
There appear to be a few opinions about what the OP is asking, yours among them. Any one of us could be right and all of us could be wrong. Only the OP can say for sure and I suspect he is capable of forming a cogent reply on his own given both his apparent understanding of the language and probable education level (at least Jr. college). So, although you have generously spoken on his behalf, I'll pause for a bit in hopes he clarifies his own thoughts.
In most cases you would be right to let the OP clearing out his thought, but in this case I think it is most people that are not familiar with the way Christians talk that misinterpret their meaning.
I live in a country that is a 97% Catholic Christians so I think I can relate to what he meant because I hear it all the time.
Christians tend to be a bit arrogant and expect you to know that they are referring to a christian type of god when they talk about god.
He takes it for granted that he is assuming that god exists, so he doesn't bother declaring that assumption.
His post needs to be understood in that way, he is talking about the christian philosophy even though it might mean more to him then just that.
He is trying to ask, what WE(atheists) think about the christian philosophy in a very crude and unsophisticated way, the christian way.
"I'll pause for a bit in hopes he clarifies his own thoughts."
Yes, but it does not help if he is attacked about a different subject(like god's existence). That would just push him on the defensive, or just leave, apart that it was clear to me that he is asking about the christian theology after all he is a christian.
What else could he be talking about?
If I was wrong then you could correct me right?
Or better, let him correct me?
In either case, it just helps to show him HOW to clarify "his own thoughts" with a possible clarification.
You're pretty much right on target. Anyway It's a moot point I've moved on from that no longer believing in it. I feel a little bitter though so I'd rather be left alone right now them someone saying something like. You now realize this or you now realize that and so on.
If you have any more questions just ask or send a pm.
I did a lot of research on Christianity and can point you in the right direction if it is history related.
I understand how anyone can feel bitter once he discovered that the love of his god is and imaginary as the god himself.
I use to think that why god doesn't love me but he love people. I wondered why he doesn't connect with me like he connect with others.But now I see that I failed to connect with god is because god doesn't exist.
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