@AJ777 imagine you are a car salesperson. I noticed a nice shiny red car that I was interested in. But I do not know enough about the car to make the purchase. It is up to you to convince me, to seal the deal.

I did read the link, but I need more clarification. Since you are the one who are making the assertion, please convince me.

Because right now all you are stating is "it's a nice shiny red".

@ AJ777

“Most biblical scholars agree that genesis was written by Moses in around 1445BC. The gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were written before 90AD. Roughly 1500 years passed between genesis being written and the gospels. The writer of genesis was Jewish, and knew nothing about a religion called Christianity that would appear 1500 years after he died. Why is the gospel narrative in the book of genesis.”

First of all, Moses never existed.

The walls of the tombs of Ahmose (dated circa 1500 BCE), son of Ebana, said to be the basis of the Moses myth, and Ahmose Pen Nekhbet (dated circa 1450 BCE) detail the earliest records of Egyptian control of the Land of Canaan until approximately 900 BCE. The Bible’s depiction of Israel does not allow for Egyptian control over the Land of Canaan.

The Penteteuch, biblical books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, allegdly written by Moses circa 1440 to 1400 BCE, were actually written circa 450 BCE (oldest copy of the Old Testament written in Ancient Hebrew). That is 1000 years after this non-existent Moses supposedly wrote them. There are copies of the Old Testament written in Greek dating back to 650 BCE. Hmm…

And why is there absolutely no Egyptian records of any people called "Hebrew" until around 800 BCE? The Exodus is supposedly to have begun circa 1440 BCE. The "Hebrews" were supposedly enslaved in Egypt since circa 1870 BCE. If they had been in Egypt for 430 years, then words from each language would have had words exchange into each others’ language during such a long period of time. In other words, the Hebrew language would be half Egyptian, and vice versa. However, neither language has any words that are even close to the other language in their language. Perhaps the only exception is “Moses” which is a bastardized version of the Egyptian names like Ahmose, Thutmose, Amosis, etc. Most scholars have quietly concluded that the epic of Moses never happened. Others think it combines myth, cultural memories, with very few kernels of truth.

Proof of this language hybridization is in American English. How long has America existed, including the Colonial Period? About 400 years? Actually, 411 to be more exact (1607 to 2018). Yet look at how many words in American English are direct integration into American English from other languages, especially Spanish. Ever heard the term Spanglish? I think it was an Adam Sandler movie... One good example is the term for “goodbye.” There is goodbye, ciao (msp?), adios, arrive deutsche (msp?), bon voyage, etc. Far too many other examples for me to even attempt to list only a few. Something like language infusion and hybridization is inevitable even if the two groups co-exist for only 40 years, one-tenth what the Hebrews supposedly spent in Egypt.

However, there is absolutely no evidence of any Hebrew word in Egyptian, or any Egyptian word in Hebrew. And to say that the two kept themselves that separated while living together for over 400 years is utter bollocks. Additionally, the ONLY source of the enslavement in Egypt is only found in that Hebrew book of faerie tales known as the Bible. There is absolutely no other evidence of the Hebrews spending 430 years in Egypt. Since the Exodus Story never happened and the 430 years enslavement never happened, that means Moses never existed. There was no exodus from Egypt. There was no 40 years of being lost in the desert. And the best proof the Hebrews were never in Egypt is the fact that they never mentioned the Pharaoh’s name during the time just before the exodus. They do not mention his name because they never knew his name since they were never there.

Many, many decades (about 150 years) of archaeological excavations attempting to prove the biblical account of the Exodus true, archaeologists have found no conclusive evidence that the Hebrews were ever in Egypt. They were never enslaved. They never wandered about on the Sinai Peninsula for 40 years. They never conquered the Land of Canaan under Joshua’s leadership. The prevalent view has now become that almost all of Joshua’s famous military campaigns just never did occur. Archaeologists have uncovered ash layers and other signs of destruction at the relevant time at ONLY ONE of the many battlegrounds mentioned in the Bible. And that only one was Jericho. All others mentioned in the Bible never happened. At least no archaeological evidence has ever been found.

There has not been one shred of evidence discovered in the Sinai Desert that a large number of Jews (upwards of 3 million) had wandered for 40 years. Of course, that may not be such a big deal. It is a desert, is it not? Sandstorms probably just buried all the evidence. The more you get to thinking about this story of 600,000 Hebrew men (not including women and children), however, the more the lack of evidence was actually a fairly damning difficulty. According to the book of Exodus {12:37} The children of Israel traveled from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot who were men, in addition to children. It only lists the number of men, then says there were children also, but not how many. And it never even mentions women. Talk about misogyny.

Anyway, that is still a lot of Hebrews wandering around in this desert, and it seems extremely unlikely, bordering on virtually impossible, for this many people to leave absolutely no trace. Especially when traces have been found for smaller groups of people which predated the Exodus in that same desert.

The Gospels were actually not written until AFTER 100 CE. And if I grant that Jesus existed, his execution was circa 28 to 33 CE. That means the Gospels were written 72 to 67 years AFTER the supposed execution of Jesus. Ask Old Man. He knows this better than I do since my specialties were the Noahacian Flood Myth and the Exodus That Went Nowhere. Jesus was nothing but a word-of-mouth Chinese Whispers myth that grew and grew more and more extraoridinary as the decades passed before anyone decided to write those myths down. And there is proof through advanced writing analysis that the four gospels could have been written by as many as 12 to 15 different persons. Hmm…

As for, "Why is the gospel narrative in the book of genesis?" It is not. Please provide proof it is. You also have to remember that the Ancient Hebrew equivalents of the names in the Bible were very different than the names that were later (over 1600 years later) translated into English. It does NOT work to translate the English names into Modern Hebrew. You have to go see the actual names as written in Ancient Hebrew.

And think on this. The AV1611 King James Bible was translated from the Greek versions. NOT the Hebrew. How many times has the Bible been translated and re-translated and re-translated and re-translated and written and re-written and re-written and re-written? This is why there is no truth left in the Bible. Take the Harry Potter series of books and translate and re-translate and re-translate and re-translate and re-write and re-write and re-write and re-write them a hundred times. Then translate them back into English. I guarantee you will NOT get the same story.

And then there is the thread I started titled, "Why are you Theists so afraid of research?" I know why. If you were to actually to do some research into the Bible and its history through accredited universities, you would arrive at the same truth I did. The Bible AND the Qu'ran are nothing more plagiarized books of lies stolen from myths and legends FAR! older than either book.

And to be completely and wholly honest with you, I have forgotten more about the research I did spanning 1974 to 2013 than you shall ever learn in your entire lifetime.

rmfr

@AJ777

Most biblical scholars agree that genesis was written by Moses in around 1445BC

No, they do not. your phrase is incorrect it should read " Most evangelist presuppositionalist people who study the bible not actual history agree that Genesis ...." Many historians of (biblical) ancient times doubt that the Moses figure existed. See University of Tel Aviv archives.

Your second unfounded assertion

The gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were written before 90AD

That is an assertion often trotted out by christian theologians. Unfortunately for your assertion, although we can be sure that 'Matthew' and 'Luke' are largely copies (with alterations) of 'Mark', and that yes, gospel texts existed at the turn of the 1st century, we do not know the content of those gospels, when they were written, or the authors or even to whom they were ascribed then. The alleged authorship of those texts was not officially recognised and only by 'tradition' ascribed to Mark Luke and Matthew later on.
Like many half educated suppositionalists you confuse "ascribing to by tradition"with "actually authored the piece".

You also do not seem to grasp that many different versions of the texts were circulating in the early 1st century, either that or you are wilfully ignoring the facts; the Ebionite versions were Adoptionist, the Marcionites version supported their view of the Jesus figure and the Syriac churches had their own condensed synoptic gospels. We know that the early versions of both Luke and Matthew omitted any accounts of the nativity....precisely when and by whom they were added we do not know...as yet.....

Now to your "names mean something" most names have meanings, that is why there are books sold in such vast quantities to expectant Mums and Dads. I am Celtic stock, all our names mean something. I dare say if you chose to pick all the real names from the people on these forums you could (with judicious editing) get a coherent message from it.

The whole "coded names" nonsense is as believable as "Walter the purple Wombat who plays with Eric the Rainbow Farting Unicorn in my garden".

And AJ777 when you make assertions like "most biblical scholars" or "Written by" make sure of your facts not wishful thinking from an apologist website. Otherwise you look foolish, especially when you have already been corrected at least once. You can believe in what you wish, but facts are facts and you will be called out when you mangle the truth to suit your narrative.

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Face-palm! Do you have any idea at all how to use Google Search? More ignorant and inane assertions. Only the extreme Christian conservatives buy into the Moses myth any more. Not even the Modern Jews assert he was real.

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/09/books/new-torah-for-modern-minds.html

We all get that you poo-poo any facts or evidence that do not agree with your limited ability to explore, comprehend or challenge, but please know your inane, ignorant, biased assertions are wrong and have been known to be wrong for about 25 years now.

In The Bible Unearthed , Israeli archaeologists Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman dispelled any illusions that their digs had verified the story of the Exodus: “The process that we describe here is, in fact, the opposite of what we have in the Bible: the emergence of early Israel was an outcome of the collapse of the Canaanite culture, not its cause. And most of the Israelites did not come from outside Canaan – they emerged from within it. There was no mass Exodus from Egypt. There was no violent conquest of Canaan. Most of the people who formed early Israel were local people – the same people whom we see in the highlands throughout the Bronze and Iron Ages. The early Israelites were – irony of ironies – themselves originally Canaanites!" [1] (Finkelstein & Silberman The Bible Unearthed."

@Cali

Hot damn!.... *removing hat and slapping it against leg*.... Have I mentioned how much I enjoy reading your posts? By golly, that was superb!