Whoops, bit of a cock up...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8110673/All-16-Dead-Sea-...
Any thoughts?!
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@Random Hero 1982
Not all all surprised, BUT: (from your cited article)
"The report casts doubt on all Dead Sea Scrolls found after 2002"
I will accept the rest as genuine until proved otherwise, until such time as they are proved to be forgeries.
I am currently reading "The Gnostic Gospels" ** by Elaine Pagels . It's fascinating .Right now I'm reading about gnostic mysticism which is not unlike aspects of Hindu and Buddhist traditions.
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**Gnostic gospels are from Nag Hammadi found in 1945 by accident , to the Dead Sea Scrolls scrolls, in 1947. They could all be forgeries for all I know. If this turns tout to be the case, I won't be too bothered, my interest is purely academic .As far as I'm aware, most Christian churches, including the Catholics, consider both bodies of work apocryphal
All of the fakes are at the "Museum of the Bible" a propaganda exercise perpetrated by the Hobby Lobby billionaire. For a more reliable report and background click here: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/11/museum-of-the-bible-dead...
The Daily Mail is a gutter rag of sensationalism. Not fit for the bottom of a budgie cage.
My aunt in London says the Daily Mail is far more absorbent than the other daily papers. But then she uses it to line her ostrich's cage.
Every paper in Britain is abhorrent, luckily this was just reporting the findings of national geographic (unfortunately they are subscription based, therefore couldn't copy a precise link).
@Random Hero
"Every paper in Britain is abhorrent, luckily this was just reporting the findings of national geographic (unfortunately they are subscription based, therefore couldn't copy a precise link)."
Here in South Australia, there is one daily paper*** ,plus one National Sunday paper. I read none of the yellow rags. (Used to get the Sunday paper, until they removed the TV guide.)
I was thrilled to see the choices of English newspapers available when I last visited . In the time I was there,I managed to read most of them. Didn't bother with The Sun . I remember being disappointed with TheTimes.
Below from "Yes Prime Minister" (it's from the 1980's) ''who reads the [British] papers':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M
*** " The Adelaide News" was Rupert Murdock's first Newspaper. I think that says it all really.
Along the same lines that Old man shouts reported; I saw this article today:
How forgers fooled the Bible museum with fake Dead Sea Scroll fragments
From that article:
Daily Mail .. 'nuff said
Museum of the Bible is a very dodgy enterprise that acquired it's artifacts by unknown means.
A story by a questionable rag, about a questionable museum, involving questionable artifacts.
Why would anyone try to make forgeries of such a historically important antiquity as the Dead Sea Scrolls?
@Lion IRC: Why would anyone try to make forgeries
Money, perhaps?
The real question is, why would anyone want to bump rumps with a donkey? Do you think they are looking for a bit of history themselves. I know it happens because that is my personal experience but I still think it is sick. You can't prove me wrong.
@Cognostic.
A true story, about 100 years ago,.
The local ruler is recounting; "You all know how good I am to the poor, to veterans and widows. I've built decent housing for them ,a sewerage system, good roads, a hospital ,a school and a university. "
----I think all that should have secured my legacy. But nooooo; a man fucks ONE goat---------------------
Now that's hilarious, I mean it's not as if the Catholic has centuries of form for selling fakery of their woo woo superstition. Incidentally while travelling in the middle east I managed to acquire an actual splinter from the cross they crucified Jesus on, yours for a mere £10,000.
Oh and tell your mates, as rather fortuitously I was able to get my hands on a few dozen. Certificates of authenticity are in the price, seriously what a bargain...
@THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION:
We know that at least 11 of the books of the bible are forgeries. We know that forged passages are rampant throughout the rest of the texts. We have no idea at all who wrote the gospels so why they are considered authentic is a mystery. Some of the texts discovered with the Dead Sea scrolls were in the process of being forged and we have the original text right next to the new text being forged. How could the discovery of more forgeries be anything but completely unremarkable.
@Cognostic
"We know that at least 11 of the books of the bible are forgeries."
Really? I didn't know that. I'm aware five of the Pauline epistles are pretty much accepted as forgeries. Didn't know about the other books**
Would you mind terribly telling me what they are and when and why it was decided they are forgeries?
Lets not forget the THOUSANDS of little bits added, omitted or simply mis transcribed by scribes over centuries.**
So I'm not doubting you, I honestly don't know.
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**My reference: :'Misquoting Jesus' by Bart Ehrman.
***Purely academic you understand.As far as I'm concerned they're all mythology, so authorship is pretty much irrelevant. Could have been a chimp with a type writer for all I know. A lot of it makes as much sense.
Originally taken from a Bart Eherman video. But I have found other corroborators. Reference the book "Forged."
New Testament books identified as forgeries by Ehrman
First Epistle of Peter
Second Epistle of Peter
Acts of the Apostles
Epistle of James
Epistle of Jude
Second Epistle to the Thessalonians
First Epistle to Timothy
Second Epistle to Timothy
Epistle to Titus
Epistle to the Ephesians
Epistle to the Colossians
Of course you will find the typical apologetic attempts to justify the creation of these books but Erhman has done his research and will stand toe to toe with any.
False attributions:
In addition to the eleven books of the New Testament Ehrman identifies as forgeries, he discusses eight originally anonymous New Testament texts that had names of apostles ascribed to them later and are falsely attributed. These are not forgeries since the texts are anonymous but have had false authors ascribed to them by others.
Gospel of Matthew
Gospel of Mark
Gospel of Luke
Gospel of John
First Epistle of John
Second Epistle of John
Third Epistle of John
Epistle to the Hebrews
See also: I have these all on audio file and really enjoy listening to them.
Jesus, Interrupted, another New York Times bestseller by Ehrman
Misquoting Jesus, a New York Times bestseller by Ehrman
You can find Bart discussing his books on YouTube.
Hope that helps,. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forged_(book)#New_Testament_books_identified_as_forgeries_by_Ehrman
About Bart Ehrman himself....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman
A very well known and reliable source.
@Cognostic
Yes, that's a terrific help.Thank you, much appreciated.
I'm still wading my way through "Misquoting Jesus" and " The Lost Christianities" . Have given up on: "Did Jesus Exist?" . I found it disappointing.
Takes me ages to finish a book these days,I 'm currenlty also reading 4 others. ,2 by Ehrman. . Most recently 'Hypatia; Her Life and Times" by Faith L Justice. . Hypatia was a fifth century female Greek mathematician and philosopher. She was murdered by a christian mob at the urging of the bishop of Alexandria .Even then the church was ineffably corrupt.
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Quotes from Hypatia
"Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths, and miracles as poetic fancies. ...
“All formal dogmatic religions are fallacious and must never be accepted by self-respecting persons as final.” ...
“To rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world, is just as base as to use force..."
Easy to se why the Christians felt so threatened by her .
There is an excellent film on her called 'Agora' with Rachel Weisz as Hypatia.
@Crankt: Hypatia; Aw Fuck. I just added another book to my bucket list. I am never gonna get through that list. Damn. Sounds really interesting. We know there were female genius throughout history but we know so little about most of them.
@ Cog
Hypatia was a brilliant woman. hundreds of years ahead of her time. A terrible threat to male dominated religions of oppression.
The actual Dead Sea Scrolls are obviously of such value and historical importance that some people are willing to attempt forgeries.
>blockquote>Iron IRC "The actual Dead Sea Scrolls are obviously of such value and historical importance that some people are willing to attempt forgeries."
Almost true, a more accurate assertion is that Theists place so much value on the idea of the DSS as evidence for their beliefs, that they are prepared to forge them, just as the RCC forged the Turin shroud, exposed as a medieval forgery by objective carbon dating testing, and yet maintained as real by the RCC and millions of delusional adherents.
Gotta love how people think the dead sea scrolls is evidence of their god idea.
Scrolls obviously created and written by people. All in languages almost no one is even capable of speaking/understanding. (How convenient for the god myth and fudging any thing that is obviously false today!)
@ Lying Lion
The actual Dead Sea Scrolls are obviously of such value and historical importance that some people are willing to attempt forgeries.
Anything of value will be forged or faked. Because they are faked makes no more or less difference to an original. From Toy cars, share certificates to ancient documents, if there is a monetary value some bastard will fake them.
@Lion IRC: "the atcual Sea death scrills is obliviously such values and histrionic impotence that peoples are willing to atmeps forgery."
by Cog.
As if a willingness to forge anything has anything at all to do with value. Is there an atom of logic anyplace in the space between your two ears? Just wondering?
So long story short the bible which Lion IRC claims has no errors in it, has known forgeries in it.
@Sheldon:
So long story short the bible which Lion IRC claims has no errors in it, has known forgeries in it.
Yea, but every good Christian knows the forgeries were put there to confuse the non-believers. It's just like Jesus speaking in parables so only the faithful can understand. Besides, if you read and understand all the forgeries properly there really are no forgeries and no contradiction. If you see forgeries, obviously Satan is influencing your mind. You should try praying before you read your bible. If that does not work, you can wash your eyes with Holy water. I am selling holy water blessed by the Pope himself which I procured from the Vatican on my last trip to the Holy city. If I sell all the little jars I have, I will make a return trip and keep the supplies coming. So, for a once in a lifetime offer and $399 you can obtain a blessed 3 oz jar of Holy water straight from Vatican City. This little jar is guaranteed to cure cancer, grow legs on amputees, cure the blind, and grant three wishes. Hurry now and get your jar today while supplies last.
Once you begin to work, God begins to work! Praise Jesus!!!
@ Cog
And if you are a protestant I have a supply of magical Colloidal Silver blessed by jesus himself that cures everything...oh wait let me read the bottle...ahh...except poo flinging, apostasy and banana sex...whatever they are.
There is also a warning that says "if handled by evangelicals believe no claims for this perfectly ordinary bottle of stuff"
@OMS: Hey how about trading me! You give me a magical Colloidal Silver blessed and a thousand dollars and I will give you my very last 3 oz jar of Holy water. They have been selling like Pet Rocks. Tin Man bought three! Frankly he is waiting for the price to go up so he can sell them to Gerald, Jo and Lion IRC for a profit. That's our Tin, Always thinking!!!
@ Cog
I would but Tin just bought my last 4 jars....he should be going an interesting blue color anytime soon.....
@Old Man Re: "....he should be going an interesting blue color anytime soon....."
...*admiring self in mirror*... *beaming smile*... Oooooo.... Aaahhhh.... Lovely.... This looks quite dashing, I must say.....
@Cog Re: "That's our Tin, Always thinking!!!"
... *cringing*... Shhhhhhhhhhh.... *anxious whispering*... hey, keep your voice down already... *looking back over shoulder*... you tryin' to get me busted?... *peeking out window*... if Straw-boy wakes up and notices his brain is missing, i'll be the first person he suspects... *looking up and down hallway*... not that it seems to do him much good, though. you would think he would have enough sense not to keep it in that giant pickle jar by his bed when he goes to sleep... *rolling eyes*...
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