@Apollo Re: "Atheists, who a priori lack belief in a creator, appear to have a choice: Either the material of the universe created itself, or it always existed. What ever one picks, its a metaphysical belief."

Yo, Jello-brain! How about, "I.... DON'T... KNOW." Therefore, I make no choice. Moreover, even though I do tend to find the topic interesting on a personal amusement level, I really do not care how matter came into existence. It has no bearing whatsoever on my life, and it most certainly has no bearing on my being an atheist.

Just out of my own warped sense of curiosity, do you even remotely care that you make yourself sound like a monumental imbecile when you make statements like that? Of course, being the troll that you are, I realize you likely do such things intentionally.

@doG

"Its getting the afflicted to book an appointment which is the real tough part."

Indeed. The truly insane vs the merely neurotic will seldom accept there is anything wrong with them****.

Their world view is along the lines of "The whole world is crazy except thee and me. Lately I've been having doubts about thee"

A not uncommon attitude of apologists we get here. They are invariably right and everyone here who disagrees with them is ignorant, stupid or nuts.

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*** 'Asylums' is a nifty little book about the 'career' of a mental patient, in the form of essays, by Erving Goffman, Sociologist. . One of his observations is that the paranoid is partially correct in thinking people are conspiring against him. They often are, in the form of family members, and perhaps a social worker and a psychiatrist. They are are trying to get the paranoid 'help" he doesn't want or think he needs.

ASYLUMS:

"Based on his participant observation field work (he was employed as a physical therapist's assistant under a grant from the National Institute of Mental Health at a mental institution in Washington, D.C.), Goffman details his theory of the "total institution" (principally in the example he gives, as the title of the book indicates, mental institutions) and the process by which it takes efforts to maintain predictable and regular behavior on the part of both "guard" and "captor," suggesting that many of the features of such institutions serve the ritual function of ensuring that both classes of people know their function and social role, in other words of "institutionalising" them. Goffman concludes that adjusting the inmates to their role has at least as much importance as "curing" them. In the essay "Notes on the Tinkering Trades," Goffman concluded that the "medicalization" of mental illness and the various treatment modalities are offshoots of the 19th century and the Industrial Revolution and that the so-called "medical model" for treating patients was a variation on the way trades- and craftsmen of the late 19th century repaired clocks and other mechanical objects: in the confines of a shop or store, contents and routine of which remained a mystery to the customer.

Asylums brought Goffman immediate recognition when it was published in 1961, and by the 1970s had become required reading in some introductory sociology courses, according to socialist author Peter Sedgwick, who considered the book a "powerful and compelling study" and the recognition it brought to Goffman "thoroughly deserved".[1]

@Apollo,

Still trying to equate blind faith based belief with objectively evidenced facts, and we are all still wondering why?

Just because science starts with unconfirmed speculation, doesn't mean accepted scientific theories like species evolution don't support objective scientific facts.

Bottom line here is that you are wrong Apollo, and no one here will ever accept this nonsense as they have seen through it easily, and even if you were right it would be absurd to claim this evidenced a deity, or evidenced anything, as all claims would become a subjective pick and mix of equal validity, and that is not only absurdly wrong and stupid, it would render every post you make meaningless. Bizarrely you can't, or more likely won't, see it.

However we have established your position is biased, as you have been unable to list beliefs that you hold without any supporting objective evidence, but that form no part of your superstitious religious beliefs. The fact you won't even try reeks of dishonesty as well.

I believe the earth is not flat, and not at the centre of the universe. You have claimed these are not objective facts, so you think there is a possibility at least that the earth might be flat and at the centre if the universe, yet claim to be certain a deity exists, so ipso facto there is no possibility it does not exist, bizarre biased nonsense Apollo.

So to recap you claim to be 100% certain a deity exists, but without any objective evidence, but claim an objective fact like the earth not being flat and at the centre of the universe might be wrong because you want to pretend this lends validity to your blind faith in archaic superstition.

No one is buying this nonsense Apollo, and endless repetition won't make your claim any less absurd.